FIRST DRAFT - will be updated...
Short answers in RED followed by in depth sequence of events...
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=40667
4962.1.2. Hey SolonPol, is this what happened?
by solonjoe3, 11/22/11 2:19 PM
Re: Reconsidering 422 guard rails by SolonPol, 11/22/11 2:19 PM
The city says to ODOT, “Hey buds, how about some guardrails.” (or did ODOT just do it on its own?)
ODOT to the City, “Sure, we can do that. Here are the plans.”
NOT SURE IF THEY OFFERED PLANS!
City to ODOT ”hey, those guard rails are kinda close to the road.”
NO, RESIDENTS NOTICED AND COMPLAINED FIRST.
ODOT “Yeah, too expensive to put further away from the road. ”
(Could the city have ponied up the extra cash to put it further away from the road? Was that an option?)
City “Ok”
Guardrails get put up.
Council “Hey, these new guard rails are too close. Let’s complain to ODOT”
ONLY AFTER RESIDENTS COMPLAINED AND IT WAS ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE SOLON TIMES.
Russo “Not so fast. I don’t want to make ‘em mad.”
Rest of council “Let’s talk about it at the next council mtg.”
REST OF SAFETY, JUST TO SOOTHE RUSSO'S RUFFLED FEATHERS.
Guy get killed. Guardrails may or may not be a contributing cause.
City pulls the item from agenda while it figure out what it wants to do.
THEY KNOW WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO, IT WAS DECIDED IN CAUCUS.
Is the above right? ODOT didn’t just put up the guardrails w/o consulting westbrooks et al, right? Or does ODOT just do things without asking?
NOT EXACTLY!
Cheers.
==================== And here's the answer ...
Not exactly!
The city, specifically I believe Shaw, has been asking for guardrails in the center to prevent cross over accidents for quite some time. They don't happen often, but of course they are serious when they do.
One time, ODOT said OK, we'll do them for free ........ and who knows how much anyone heard after that, knowing what a sucker politicians are for "free" stuff, after all that's how we got our "free" million dollar temp road. Hopefully no one notices that the city requested that...
The city did know in advance that ODOT was going to do them differently than requested, it was discussed at the Safety meeting. It's not clear whether ODOT just described the differences or whether they provided the city with plans. I'd guess that if the city asked for details or the plans that they'd probably get them.
Looking carefully at other rails, there are some that are close to the road. BUT, living in this city for some time and travelling that road I know I've seen lots of cars in the center snow drifts and it doesn't take a rocket scientist or a Harvard lawyer to wonder what fate those cars will have with guardrails, no matter how close they are to the road.
ODOT did say they couldn't put them in the center because there is drainage under the center. I'm not sure if they discussed the closeness or the reason in advance. At some point they started adding a foot of pavement and marking the posts. This is when any passing motorist knew they were going to be close.
At some point ODOT explained that they were not further from the road because the road side would need to be regraded and that would cost extra money.
While its "their road" and they don't have to get others input, I'd like to think that if Solon wanted to enhance the project at their own expense that they'd do it.
IT WAS NOT council who discovered the problem, it wasn't our crack road experts on the city payroll, IT WAS residents who wrote letters to council, just like BB Rd, just like Pepper Dr, just like the $2.3 M road rip off years ago.
One wonders if all these road problems are discovered by residents for free, well what are the experts supposed to be doing? Well I guess they do something beneficial but construction monitoring doesn't seem to be included.
So AFTER several letters, and AFTER the front page of the Solon Times, Toni wanted it added to the agenda. Russo said NO, he wanted it referred to Safety. After all he had dealt with the issue at the previous meeting, he asked his leading questions, he got his expert answers to trump the insignificant public, what more was needed?
So it WAS NOT put on the council agenda. At the end of Council, during the roundtable, Toni pulled a tactical move, she raised the issue, she made the motion, and it was immediately seconded (this doesn't happen accidentally, its almost always by advance collusion). There was some hesitation, she reminded the chair there was an active motion on the floor, Roberts Rules dictate a vote must be done. And it was, 6-0.
When Russo returned he was not to pleased about this slick maneuver and added the 422 rails to the Safety agenda. He was so anxious that he couldn't wait until the end of the meeting so he moved it up to the top of the Other Topics agenda.
Russo tried to override council, Bell let him huff and puff, then reminded him twice, it was at council, it was voted on, Russo lost.
Still he was not dissuaded and wrote a letter to the clerk making a "referral" which appeared on the agenda as a "reconsideration" (that is to repeal the letter).
ODOT has jurisdiction over 422, they can do what they want. But politics being politics and influence being a political commodity, there are always alternatives, there can always be deals made.
Unlike the popular BB Rd refrain, NO ONES HANDS ARE REALLY TIED!
Then there was a terrible accident, and these guard rails were involved. No one will ever know what would have happened for sure without them.
So in caucus, off camera, the agenda is discussed. Russo wanted no letter, council voted on the letter, no one wanted to have a discussion on camera. So a deal was made, let Westbrooks write a "professional and cooperative" letter, and the item will be removed from the agenda.
SO a letter will be written, and ODOT and the Gov will get it, file it, and likely take no action.
Its all in tactical moves, and the art of the deal...
Wednesday, November 23, 2011
Saturday, February 12, 2011
What's so hard to understand?
Yes I speak at city hall, on TV and in print media, so what, challenge me on what I said, disagree in a civil manner as SolonJoe3 often does, fine.
But that doesn't give people the right to harass me, misuse my copyrighted photo to put on a female body in homoerotic position with another person, drive by my house in a menacing manner, dig into my personal life and publish details. And why does this happen, because I disagee with Bob and say so, because an outside interloper disagrees with me so he deems my opinions and statements as lies. He demands proof from me, but offers none in return, he's the might BSer and it's tru simply because he says so.
This all started because Joe said Susan practices dirty tricks, he claims that Drucker or her supporters attacked Bob about his felony record. Joe doesn't say much about how Bob and his supporters attacked Susan on her ties to the Dem machine. Joe considers that OK because it's "true" (BSer logic). But why isn't it OK to bring up Bob's felony, its true too. Maybe he thinks Bob's felony was exaggerated, well so are Susan's ties, otherwise she'd be in jail.
My contention is Bob's dirty tricks are worse and I think the abuse I received with one small mention of Bob proves that point. Show me how anyone else on this forum has been ridiculed so viciously by so many IDs in such a short time for criticizing Susan... YOU CAN'T, so I rest my case, it has been PROVEN BEYOND ALL DOUBT that Bob and/or his supporters are much more vicious.
BSer will say he doesn't support Bob, but he can't explain his violent reaction to my mere mention of Bob's name, nor can he explain all the time he spent caputuring images from copyrighted sources and creating at least 6 videos to harass me. There is an easy explanation, that he is the liar. Again PROVEN BEYOND ALL DOUBT.
Why did I post this, because BSer asked for proof.
But that doesn't give people the right to harass me, misuse my copyrighted photo to put on a female body in homoerotic position with another person, drive by my house in a menacing manner, dig into my personal life and publish details. And why does this happen, because I disagee with Bob and say so, because an outside interloper disagrees with me so he deems my opinions and statements as lies. He demands proof from me, but offers none in return, he's the might BSer and it's tru simply because he says so.
This all started because Joe said Susan practices dirty tricks, he claims that Drucker or her supporters attacked Bob about his felony record. Joe doesn't say much about how Bob and his supporters attacked Susan on her ties to the Dem machine. Joe considers that OK because it's "true" (BSer logic). But why isn't it OK to bring up Bob's felony, its true too. Maybe he thinks Bob's felony was exaggerated, well so are Susan's ties, otherwise she'd be in jail.
My contention is Bob's dirty tricks are worse and I think the abuse I received with one small mention of Bob proves that point. Show me how anyone else on this forum has been ridiculed so viciously by so many IDs in such a short time for criticizing Susan... YOU CAN'T, so I rest my case, it has been PROVEN BEYOND ALL DOUBT that Bob and/or his supporters are much more vicious.
BSer will say he doesn't support Bob, but he can't explain his violent reaction to my mere mention of Bob's name, nor can he explain all the time he spent caputuring images from copyrighted sources and creating at least 6 videos to harass me. There is an easy explanation, that he is the liar. Again PROVEN BEYOND ALL DOUBT.
Why did I post this, because BSer asked for proof.
Tuesday, January 25, 2011
SOLONJOE'S TAKE ON THE WARD 5 VACANCY
In Joe's spirit of "Summer of Love" and in view of his falling out with his namesake website, I thought I'd bring back what the censors took away...
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=36777
4457.2. The debate?
by solonjoe3, 01/24/11 9:25 AM
Re: Ward 5 council applicants by SolonMoreCynical, 01/24/11 9:25 AM
McDrucker: This is a tricky business.
Kraus: I don’t envy you. No matter what you do, somebody is going to be mad
McDrucker: I could just let you guys on council decide.
Kraus: Well, even if you do, the applicants themselves will never believe you were hands off.
McDrucker: Let’s think about this logically. If I give it to Meany, she’ll vote in accordance with my wishes. Tom Day said I *could* pick her too. She’ll probably get reelected when the time comes. Some people will make fun of her lack of wherewithal. But so what. Call her the safe choice.
Kraus: All those things are true.
McDrucker: If I give it to Floyd, my debt will be repaid. He probably won’t be too much trouble. But he’ll have a hard time getting reelected.
Kraus: Why do you say that?
McDrucker: I don’t know if Solon is ready for a black council person yet. We are ready for an Asian council person yes. We are ready for a light skinned Hispanic so long as there is no accent. Heck, we may even be ready for Jewish one.
Kraus: I’m Jewish.
McDrucker: No, I’m not talking about your type. I was talking about full on Hebrew. But a black councilman in Solon, I’m not sure how it would work.
Kraus: How so?
McDrucker: For one thing, would we need to get another bathroom for instance?
Kraus: I don’t think so. We’re not Parma.
McDrucker: And what will the cops think?
Kraus: We’ll just put his picture up in the cop’s lounge along with a description of his car so they won’t pull him over any longer.
McDrucker: I don’t know. Maybe we should just go with one of the other candidates....
4457.2.1. An interview?
by solonjoe3, 01/24/11 10:53 AM
Re: Ward 5 council applicants by SolonMoreCynical, 01/24/11 10:53 AM
Unnamed Council Person(UCP): Your name is Floyd, right?
Floyd: That’s correct.
UCP: And you’re a lawyer.
Floyd: Right again.
UCP: And you’re friends with Bill Mason.
Floyd: I worked alongside him for many years.
UCP: And you’re black.
Floyd: Excuse me?
UCP: I asked if you know Eddie and Rick?
Floyd: Didn’t sound like that is what you said. Yes, I know Councilman Kraus and Bell very well. They are excellent attorneys.
UCP: Hardly.
Floyd: What was that?
UCP: I agree heartedly. Will your law practice allow you enough time to be fully engaged with your council duties?
Floyd: I have plenty of time.
UCP: No surprise there.
Floyd: What?
UCP: I said I’m glad to hear it. What do think about opera?
Floyd: Opera?
UCP: yes, opera.
Floyd: Not really a fan.
UCP: Figures.
Floyd: What? I keep hearing you mutter things. What’s that all about?
UCP: That’s a paranoid question. Do you want me to put paranoid down here on this interview sheet? No? I didn’t think so. One more question: Do you think black qualifies as an earth-tone color?
Floyd: Earth-tone? Black? I suppose.
UCP: You would. Thanks. We’ll let you know.
4457.2.1. All these posts are ephemeral
by solonjoe3, 01/25/11 9:16 AM
Re: Ward 5 council applicants by SolonMoreCynical, 01/25/11 9:16 AM
Worked hard? Hardly.
I've noticed if I post anything that makes the mayor look like a racist like reminding folks of how badly she handled the police pointing a gun at 12 year old black girl running to her mother at church, well, someone from city hall has the post yanked. Given that history, I think its fair game to parody the mayor's racial insensitity.
Here in another ward 5 interview-- about as the lame the other two that were taken down:
Interview Team (IT): Please take a seat miss….
Meany: Meany. Ms. Meany.
IT: Yes, Ms. That’s delightfully liberated of you. Are you a liberated girl?
Meany: Woman. I don’t go overboard, but yes I think of myself as an independent and liberated woman.
IT: Do you wear a bra?
Meany: I don’t think that’s any of your business.
IT: We don’t see why not? It’s perfectly ordinary question. It effects your look and as well says something about your need to flaunt the conventions of decent society. So we ask again, do you wear a bra?
Meany: Er, sometimes. Like when it’s muddy out.
IT: There. No that wasn’t hard. Muddy out? How charming? A problem with sagging? Is that what it’s about it? Is one lower than the other?
Meany: I fail understand why any of this is relevant. I don’t suppose you asked the men about their body parts.
IT: Oh, but we did. You can learn a lot about a person from their body parts. Would you like us to explain why?
Meany: No.
IT: Good. We like people without any natural curiosity. They make such could council members. Tell us, where do you summer?
Meany: Summer? Sometimes we go the Carolinas and rent a house on the beach.
IT: We? Who else is in the we? Do you have a fella? A special someone to while away the days?
Meany: I’m having a hard time understanding why any of these questions are pertinent as whether I’m qualified to get the appointment.
IT: Your perfectly right. These questions are just a way to show we’ve talked to you. We could have all just say peas and carrots, peas and carrots for 5 minutes. But then we have manners. And by the way, you’re not qualified, not that that matters. It’s actually rare we appoint someone who is qualified.
Meany: Is it already decided then?
IT: We don’t know. The mayor will tell us in time who we picked.
Meany: I see. Thank you for interview.
4462. The huddle
by solonjoe3, 01/25/11 1:11 PM
Bell: Ok, I just talked to the mayor. We’re on our own this time. No orders from downtime. No instructions from the mayor. None of them want their fingers on this decision.
Russo: What does that mean? Them?
Pelunis: It means they want us to take the backlash for not picking Floyd.
Mooney: Why wouldn’t we pick Floyd?
Richmond: He’s a lawyer.
Kraus: We’re all lawyers. We can’t use that excuse.
Russo: I’m not.
Mooney: You’re not what?
Kraus: yeah, sorry. I keep forgetting Russo’s not a lawyer. It’s just that he acts like one.
Russo: What’s that supposed to mean?
Kraus: you know, act like you know better than everybody else even if you haven’t a clue.
Richmond: Gentleman, back to the task at hand. What are we going to do?
Bell: Let me lay it out. We can’t pick Floyd because he’s a…. how shall I put…. I’m not a racist or anything, but he’s a NAACP lawyer. We can’t have NAACP lawyer on council. Look, we all hire lots of friends and family in Solon.
Mooney: So?
Bell: So all our friends and family are white. He’s gonna notice.
Pelunis: But if we don’t pick him, he’ll come charging in, calling us racists.
Russo: How do we know that?
Bell: They always do.
Mooney: “They?” Look, I don’t think we should be having this conversation. There is nothing wrong with Floyd. He worked for Mason. He’s a democrat. He’s smart. I say we pick him.
Pelunis: If that’s what they wanted, they would have told us. Because they didn’t tell us, it’s clear that’s not what they want.
Richmond: Which “they” are you talking about now?
Bell: He’s talking about downtown.
Russo: The ghetto?
Bell: No, you idiot. Look, let’s just pick Meany. We all know she’s an airhead, but they’ll blame it on the Mayor.
Russo: Which “they” is it this time?
Mooney: The public. I’ll admit the public is pretty gullible. I’m shocked they haven’t figured out what really went down at the corner of SOM and Miles. Or that they bought that story about the temporary road.
Bell: They are pretty stupid all right.
Russo: Quit using “they”.
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=36777
4457.2. The debate?
by solonjoe3, 01/24/11 9:25 AM
Re: Ward 5 council applicants by SolonMoreCynical, 01/24/11 9:25 AM
McDrucker: This is a tricky business.
Kraus: I don’t envy you. No matter what you do, somebody is going to be mad
McDrucker: I could just let you guys on council decide.
Kraus: Well, even if you do, the applicants themselves will never believe you were hands off.
McDrucker: Let’s think about this logically. If I give it to Meany, she’ll vote in accordance with my wishes. Tom Day said I *could* pick her too. She’ll probably get reelected when the time comes. Some people will make fun of her lack of wherewithal. But so what. Call her the safe choice.
Kraus: All those things are true.
McDrucker: If I give it to Floyd, my debt will be repaid. He probably won’t be too much trouble. But he’ll have a hard time getting reelected.
Kraus: Why do you say that?
McDrucker: I don’t know if Solon is ready for a black council person yet. We are ready for an Asian council person yes. We are ready for a light skinned Hispanic so long as there is no accent. Heck, we may even be ready for Jewish one.
Kraus: I’m Jewish.
McDrucker: No, I’m not talking about your type. I was talking about full on Hebrew. But a black councilman in Solon, I’m not sure how it would work.
Kraus: How so?
McDrucker: For one thing, would we need to get another bathroom for instance?
Kraus: I don’t think so. We’re not Parma.
McDrucker: And what will the cops think?
Kraus: We’ll just put his picture up in the cop’s lounge along with a description of his car so they won’t pull him over any longer.
McDrucker: I don’t know. Maybe we should just go with one of the other candidates....
4457.2.1. An interview?
by solonjoe3, 01/24/11 10:53 AM
Re: Ward 5 council applicants by SolonMoreCynical, 01/24/11 10:53 AM
Unnamed Council Person(UCP): Your name is Floyd, right?
Floyd: That’s correct.
UCP: And you’re a lawyer.
Floyd: Right again.
UCP: And you’re friends with Bill Mason.
Floyd: I worked alongside him for many years.
UCP: And you’re black.
Floyd: Excuse me?
UCP: I asked if you know Eddie and Rick?
Floyd: Didn’t sound like that is what you said. Yes, I know Councilman Kraus and Bell very well. They are excellent attorneys.
UCP: Hardly.
Floyd: What was that?
UCP: I agree heartedly. Will your law practice allow you enough time to be fully engaged with your council duties?
Floyd: I have plenty of time.
UCP: No surprise there.
Floyd: What?
UCP: I said I’m glad to hear it. What do think about opera?
Floyd: Opera?
UCP: yes, opera.
Floyd: Not really a fan.
UCP: Figures.
Floyd: What? I keep hearing you mutter things. What’s that all about?
UCP: That’s a paranoid question. Do you want me to put paranoid down here on this interview sheet? No? I didn’t think so. One more question: Do you think black qualifies as an earth-tone color?
Floyd: Earth-tone? Black? I suppose.
UCP: You would. Thanks. We’ll let you know.
4457.2.1. All these posts are ephemeral
by solonjoe3, 01/25/11 9:16 AM
Re: Ward 5 council applicants by SolonMoreCynical, 01/25/11 9:16 AM
Worked hard? Hardly.
I've noticed if I post anything that makes the mayor look like a racist like reminding folks of how badly she handled the police pointing a gun at 12 year old black girl running to her mother at church, well, someone from city hall has the post yanked. Given that history, I think its fair game to parody the mayor's racial insensitity.
Here in another ward 5 interview-- about as the lame the other two that were taken down:
Interview Team (IT): Please take a seat miss….
Meany: Meany. Ms. Meany.
IT: Yes, Ms. That’s delightfully liberated of you. Are you a liberated girl?
Meany: Woman. I don’t go overboard, but yes I think of myself as an independent and liberated woman.
IT: Do you wear a bra?
Meany: I don’t think that’s any of your business.
IT: We don’t see why not? It’s perfectly ordinary question. It effects your look and as well says something about your need to flaunt the conventions of decent society. So we ask again, do you wear a bra?
Meany: Er, sometimes. Like when it’s muddy out.
IT: There. No that wasn’t hard. Muddy out? How charming? A problem with sagging? Is that what it’s about it? Is one lower than the other?
Meany: I fail understand why any of this is relevant. I don’t suppose you asked the men about their body parts.
IT: Oh, but we did. You can learn a lot about a person from their body parts. Would you like us to explain why?
Meany: No.
IT: Good. We like people without any natural curiosity. They make such could council members. Tell us, where do you summer?
Meany: Summer? Sometimes we go the Carolinas and rent a house on the beach.
IT: We? Who else is in the we? Do you have a fella? A special someone to while away the days?
Meany: I’m having a hard time understanding why any of these questions are pertinent as whether I’m qualified to get the appointment.
IT: Your perfectly right. These questions are just a way to show we’ve talked to you. We could have all just say peas and carrots, peas and carrots for 5 minutes. But then we have manners. And by the way, you’re not qualified, not that that matters. It’s actually rare we appoint someone who is qualified.
Meany: Is it already decided then?
IT: We don’t know. The mayor will tell us in time who we picked.
Meany: I see. Thank you for interview.
4462. The huddle
by solonjoe3, 01/25/11 1:11 PM
Bell: Ok, I just talked to the mayor. We’re on our own this time. No orders from downtime. No instructions from the mayor. None of them want their fingers on this decision.
Russo: What does that mean? Them?
Pelunis: It means they want us to take the backlash for not picking Floyd.
Mooney: Why wouldn’t we pick Floyd?
Richmond: He’s a lawyer.
Kraus: We’re all lawyers. We can’t use that excuse.
Russo: I’m not.
Mooney: You’re not what?
Kraus: yeah, sorry. I keep forgetting Russo’s not a lawyer. It’s just that he acts like one.
Russo: What’s that supposed to mean?
Kraus: you know, act like you know better than everybody else even if you haven’t a clue.
Richmond: Gentleman, back to the task at hand. What are we going to do?
Bell: Let me lay it out. We can’t pick Floyd because he’s a…. how shall I put…. I’m not a racist or anything, but he’s a NAACP lawyer. We can’t have NAACP lawyer on council. Look, we all hire lots of friends and family in Solon.
Mooney: So?
Bell: So all our friends and family are white. He’s gonna notice.
Pelunis: But if we don’t pick him, he’ll come charging in, calling us racists.
Russo: How do we know that?
Bell: They always do.
Mooney: “They?” Look, I don’t think we should be having this conversation. There is nothing wrong with Floyd. He worked for Mason. He’s a democrat. He’s smart. I say we pick him.
Pelunis: If that’s what they wanted, they would have told us. Because they didn’t tell us, it’s clear that’s not what they want.
Richmond: Which “they” are you talking about now?
Bell: He’s talking about downtown.
Russo: The ghetto?
Bell: No, you idiot. Look, let’s just pick Meany. We all know she’s an airhead, but they’ll blame it on the Mayor.
Russo: Which “they” is it this time?
Mooney: The public. I’ll admit the public is pretty gullible. I’m shocked they haven’t figured out what really went down at the corner of SOM and Miles. Or that they bought that story about the temporary road.
Bell: They are pretty stupid all right.
Russo: Quit using “they”.
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