http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=41783
5078. Question
by solonjoe3, 01/26/12 9:21 AM
In principle, what the difference between bribing Jimmy Dimora with sexual favors to get a job and bribing our current mayor with a promise to drop out of the race and hire the old mayor’s secretary?
[Joe's] Answer: Nothing. In both situations the public gets screwed.
5078.4. Answer
by SolonPol, 01/26/12 1:15 PM
Re: Question by solonjoe3, 01/26/12 1:15 PM
Brace yourself, you won't like it. But read it with an open mind, it is logical, just call me Spock. And if you still don't like my post, just remember that without my contrarian views to spark conversation, you guys would be just reading quotes of stupid comedy channel programs like South Park, just call me spice for the forum.
First, there's the evidence, Jimmy was on tape, lots of tape, Susan's situation is for the most part speculation, lots of it. And not "fair and balanced speculation" but whacko conspiracy theory speculation only found in Roswell, NM.
For Sally we have Joe's wild speculations and exaggeration, stretching what would never pass as "judicial evidence" to new wild fantasy. Bribery with something of little value (endorsement = 1/20 cent), then he switches the briber and bribee. Susan bribed Kevin for an endorsement? Why, when she supposedly had all her "dirty tricks", none of which compared to Bob's. And then saying that Susan got Patton to leave the race, oh please, it was the allure of the Mentor city manager job where no one knew Kevin's weaknesses. Next we'll hear that Susan talked Scott into running as Bob's spoiler, PULEASE!
But the real issue is of parity, Susan giving current employees "a chance" doesn't even come close to Jimmy's whores and payola for jobs. For Jimmy, we have all the sorid details on tape complete with F bombs and anatomical descriptions. For Susan all we have is a supposed conversation where Patton asks Susan to give his people a chance rather than the customary swinging of the ax the first day. Was this a bribe? Or even a favor? My candid council conversations of the time uncovered some councilman who would have OBJECTED to a mass house cleaning, who were concerned with the small changes she made early on.
So Patton may have ASKED Susan to CONSIDER giving some people a chance. And she did! But in the end, the IT Director, the Law Director, and the personal asst didn't pass muster and were replaced.
Was there a better way to handle this, would it have been cleaner to have a mass execution day one? Probably... But in the end, Susan is no Jimmy, just look at the pictures of the two of them, one is very very large.
Thursday, January 26, 2012
Friday, January 6, 2012
My prediction
They'll be lots of saber rattling, canon ball shooting and genital measurements, but when its all said and done, there will be a settlement out of court, NO ONE wants a jury trial, not Susan, not Sally. The judge won't dismiss it based on the city's answer.
And Sally won't walk away empty handed and that means you and I will be paying ransom for a person who got pissed, went AWOL, blackmailed the city and tarnished our image. And to me, regardless of how the city handled things, I'm more pissed at the blackmailer.
If you or I pulled that shit, we'd be out in the cold, no one would be feathering our nests, I just want public employees to be treated the same as the private sector, and in the private sector NO ONE is guaranteed a job for life.
NOTE: Response posted here because Solon Forum flagged language even after "genital" and "pissed" were removed...
And Sally won't walk away empty handed and that means you and I will be paying ransom for a person who got pissed, went AWOL, blackmailed the city and tarnished our image. And to me, regardless of how the city handled things, I'm more pissed at the blackmailer.
If you or I pulled that shit, we'd be out in the cold, no one would be feathering our nests, I just want public employees to be treated the same as the private sector, and in the private sector NO ONE is guaranteed a job for life.
NOTE: Response posted here because Solon Forum flagged language even after "genital" and "pissed" were removed...
Wednesday, November 23, 2011
422 guard rails
FIRST DRAFT - will be updated...
Short answers in RED followed by in depth sequence of events...
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=40667
4962.1.2. Hey SolonPol, is this what happened?
by solonjoe3, 11/22/11 2:19 PM
Re: Reconsidering 422 guard rails by SolonPol, 11/22/11 2:19 PM
The city says to ODOT, “Hey buds, how about some guardrails.” (or did ODOT just do it on its own?)
ODOT to the City, “Sure, we can do that. Here are the plans.”
NOT SURE IF THEY OFFERED PLANS!
City to ODOT ”hey, those guard rails are kinda close to the road.”
NO, RESIDENTS NOTICED AND COMPLAINED FIRST.
ODOT “Yeah, too expensive to put further away from the road. ”
(Could the city have ponied up the extra cash to put it further away from the road? Was that an option?)
City “Ok”
Guardrails get put up.
Council “Hey, these new guard rails are too close. Let’s complain to ODOT”
ONLY AFTER RESIDENTS COMPLAINED AND IT WAS ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE SOLON TIMES.
Russo “Not so fast. I don’t want to make ‘em mad.”
Rest of council “Let’s talk about it at the next council mtg.”
REST OF SAFETY, JUST TO SOOTHE RUSSO'S RUFFLED FEATHERS.
Guy get killed. Guardrails may or may not be a contributing cause.
City pulls the item from agenda while it figure out what it wants to do.
THEY KNOW WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO, IT WAS DECIDED IN CAUCUS.
Is the above right? ODOT didn’t just put up the guardrails w/o consulting westbrooks et al, right? Or does ODOT just do things without asking?
NOT EXACTLY!
Cheers.
==================== And here's the answer ...
Not exactly!
The city, specifically I believe Shaw, has been asking for guardrails in the center to prevent cross over accidents for quite some time. They don't happen often, but of course they are serious when they do.
One time, ODOT said OK, we'll do them for free ........ and who knows how much anyone heard after that, knowing what a sucker politicians are for "free" stuff, after all that's how we got our "free" million dollar temp road. Hopefully no one notices that the city requested that...
The city did know in advance that ODOT was going to do them differently than requested, it was discussed at the Safety meeting. It's not clear whether ODOT just described the differences or whether they provided the city with plans. I'd guess that if the city asked for details or the plans that they'd probably get them.
Looking carefully at other rails, there are some that are close to the road. BUT, living in this city for some time and travelling that road I know I've seen lots of cars in the center snow drifts and it doesn't take a rocket scientist or a Harvard lawyer to wonder what fate those cars will have with guardrails, no matter how close they are to the road.
ODOT did say they couldn't put them in the center because there is drainage under the center. I'm not sure if they discussed the closeness or the reason in advance. At some point they started adding a foot of pavement and marking the posts. This is when any passing motorist knew they were going to be close.
At some point ODOT explained that they were not further from the road because the road side would need to be regraded and that would cost extra money.
While its "their road" and they don't have to get others input, I'd like to think that if Solon wanted to enhance the project at their own expense that they'd do it.
IT WAS NOT council who discovered the problem, it wasn't our crack road experts on the city payroll, IT WAS residents who wrote letters to council, just like BB Rd, just like Pepper Dr, just like the $2.3 M road rip off years ago.
One wonders if all these road problems are discovered by residents for free, well what are the experts supposed to be doing? Well I guess they do something beneficial but construction monitoring doesn't seem to be included.
So AFTER several letters, and AFTER the front page of the Solon Times, Toni wanted it added to the agenda. Russo said NO, he wanted it referred to Safety. After all he had dealt with the issue at the previous meeting, he asked his leading questions, he got his expert answers to trump the insignificant public, what more was needed?
So it WAS NOT put on the council agenda. At the end of Council, during the roundtable, Toni pulled a tactical move, she raised the issue, she made the motion, and it was immediately seconded (this doesn't happen accidentally, its almost always by advance collusion). There was some hesitation, she reminded the chair there was an active motion on the floor, Roberts Rules dictate a vote must be done. And it was, 6-0.
When Russo returned he was not to pleased about this slick maneuver and added the 422 rails to the Safety agenda. He was so anxious that he couldn't wait until the end of the meeting so he moved it up to the top of the Other Topics agenda.
Russo tried to override council, Bell let him huff and puff, then reminded him twice, it was at council, it was voted on, Russo lost.
Still he was not dissuaded and wrote a letter to the clerk making a "referral" which appeared on the agenda as a "reconsideration" (that is to repeal the letter).
ODOT has jurisdiction over 422, they can do what they want. But politics being politics and influence being a political commodity, there are always alternatives, there can always be deals made.
Unlike the popular BB Rd refrain, NO ONES HANDS ARE REALLY TIED!
Then there was a terrible accident, and these guard rails were involved. No one will ever know what would have happened for sure without them.
So in caucus, off camera, the agenda is discussed. Russo wanted no letter, council voted on the letter, no one wanted to have a discussion on camera. So a deal was made, let Westbrooks write a "professional and cooperative" letter, and the item will be removed from the agenda.
SO a letter will be written, and ODOT and the Gov will get it, file it, and likely take no action.
Its all in tactical moves, and the art of the deal...
Short answers in RED followed by in depth sequence of events...
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=40667
4962.1.2. Hey SolonPol, is this what happened?
by solonjoe3, 11/22/11 2:19 PM
Re: Reconsidering 422 guard rails by SolonPol, 11/22/11 2:19 PM
The city says to ODOT, “Hey buds, how about some guardrails.” (or did ODOT just do it on its own?)
ODOT to the City, “Sure, we can do that. Here are the plans.”
NOT SURE IF THEY OFFERED PLANS!
City to ODOT ”hey, those guard rails are kinda close to the road.”
NO, RESIDENTS NOTICED AND COMPLAINED FIRST.
ODOT “Yeah, too expensive to put further away from the road. ”
(Could the city have ponied up the extra cash to put it further away from the road? Was that an option?)
City “Ok”
Guardrails get put up.
Council “Hey, these new guard rails are too close. Let’s complain to ODOT”
ONLY AFTER RESIDENTS COMPLAINED AND IT WAS ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE SOLON TIMES.
Russo “Not so fast. I don’t want to make ‘em mad.”
Rest of council “Let’s talk about it at the next council mtg.”
REST OF SAFETY, JUST TO SOOTHE RUSSO'S RUFFLED FEATHERS.
Guy get killed. Guardrails may or may not be a contributing cause.
City pulls the item from agenda while it figure out what it wants to do.
THEY KNOW WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO, IT WAS DECIDED IN CAUCUS.
Is the above right? ODOT didn’t just put up the guardrails w/o consulting westbrooks et al, right? Or does ODOT just do things without asking?
NOT EXACTLY!
Cheers.
==================== And here's the answer ...
Not exactly!
The city, specifically I believe Shaw, has been asking for guardrails in the center to prevent cross over accidents for quite some time. They don't happen often, but of course they are serious when they do.
One time, ODOT said OK, we'll do them for free ........ and who knows how much anyone heard after that, knowing what a sucker politicians are for "free" stuff, after all that's how we got our "free" million dollar temp road. Hopefully no one notices that the city requested that...
The city did know in advance that ODOT was going to do them differently than requested, it was discussed at the Safety meeting. It's not clear whether ODOT just described the differences or whether they provided the city with plans. I'd guess that if the city asked for details or the plans that they'd probably get them.
Looking carefully at other rails, there are some that are close to the road. BUT, living in this city for some time and travelling that road I know I've seen lots of cars in the center snow drifts and it doesn't take a rocket scientist or a Harvard lawyer to wonder what fate those cars will have with guardrails, no matter how close they are to the road.
ODOT did say they couldn't put them in the center because there is drainage under the center. I'm not sure if they discussed the closeness or the reason in advance. At some point they started adding a foot of pavement and marking the posts. This is when any passing motorist knew they were going to be close.
At some point ODOT explained that they were not further from the road because the road side would need to be regraded and that would cost extra money.
While its "their road" and they don't have to get others input, I'd like to think that if Solon wanted to enhance the project at their own expense that they'd do it.
IT WAS NOT council who discovered the problem, it wasn't our crack road experts on the city payroll, IT WAS residents who wrote letters to council, just like BB Rd, just like Pepper Dr, just like the $2.3 M road rip off years ago.
One wonders if all these road problems are discovered by residents for free, well what are the experts supposed to be doing? Well I guess they do something beneficial but construction monitoring doesn't seem to be included.
So AFTER several letters, and AFTER the front page of the Solon Times, Toni wanted it added to the agenda. Russo said NO, he wanted it referred to Safety. After all he had dealt with the issue at the previous meeting, he asked his leading questions, he got his expert answers to trump the insignificant public, what more was needed?
So it WAS NOT put on the council agenda. At the end of Council, during the roundtable, Toni pulled a tactical move, she raised the issue, she made the motion, and it was immediately seconded (this doesn't happen accidentally, its almost always by advance collusion). There was some hesitation, she reminded the chair there was an active motion on the floor, Roberts Rules dictate a vote must be done. And it was, 6-0.
When Russo returned he was not to pleased about this slick maneuver and added the 422 rails to the Safety agenda. He was so anxious that he couldn't wait until the end of the meeting so he moved it up to the top of the Other Topics agenda.
Russo tried to override council, Bell let him huff and puff, then reminded him twice, it was at council, it was voted on, Russo lost.
Still he was not dissuaded and wrote a letter to the clerk making a "referral" which appeared on the agenda as a "reconsideration" (that is to repeal the letter).
ODOT has jurisdiction over 422, they can do what they want. But politics being politics and influence being a political commodity, there are always alternatives, there can always be deals made.
Unlike the popular BB Rd refrain, NO ONES HANDS ARE REALLY TIED!
Then there was a terrible accident, and these guard rails were involved. No one will ever know what would have happened for sure without them.
So in caucus, off camera, the agenda is discussed. Russo wanted no letter, council voted on the letter, no one wanted to have a discussion on camera. So a deal was made, let Westbrooks write a "professional and cooperative" letter, and the item will be removed from the agenda.
SO a letter will be written, and ODOT and the Gov will get it, file it, and likely take no action.
Its all in tactical moves, and the art of the deal...
Saturday, February 12, 2011
What's so hard to understand?
Yes I speak at city hall, on TV and in print media, so what, challenge me on what I said, disagree in a civil manner as SolonJoe3 often does, fine.
But that doesn't give people the right to harass me, misuse my copyrighted photo to put on a female body in homoerotic position with another person, drive by my house in a menacing manner, dig into my personal life and publish details. And why does this happen, because I disagee with Bob and say so, because an outside interloper disagrees with me so he deems my opinions and statements as lies. He demands proof from me, but offers none in return, he's the might BSer and it's tru simply because he says so.
This all started because Joe said Susan practices dirty tricks, he claims that Drucker or her supporters attacked Bob about his felony record. Joe doesn't say much about how Bob and his supporters attacked Susan on her ties to the Dem machine. Joe considers that OK because it's "true" (BSer logic). But why isn't it OK to bring up Bob's felony, its true too. Maybe he thinks Bob's felony was exaggerated, well so are Susan's ties, otherwise she'd be in jail.
My contention is Bob's dirty tricks are worse and I think the abuse I received with one small mention of Bob proves that point. Show me how anyone else on this forum has been ridiculed so viciously by so many IDs in such a short time for criticizing Susan... YOU CAN'T, so I rest my case, it has been PROVEN BEYOND ALL DOUBT that Bob and/or his supporters are much more vicious.
BSer will say he doesn't support Bob, but he can't explain his violent reaction to my mere mention of Bob's name, nor can he explain all the time he spent caputuring images from copyrighted sources and creating at least 6 videos to harass me. There is an easy explanation, that he is the liar. Again PROVEN BEYOND ALL DOUBT.
Why did I post this, because BSer asked for proof.
But that doesn't give people the right to harass me, misuse my copyrighted photo to put on a female body in homoerotic position with another person, drive by my house in a menacing manner, dig into my personal life and publish details. And why does this happen, because I disagee with Bob and say so, because an outside interloper disagrees with me so he deems my opinions and statements as lies. He demands proof from me, but offers none in return, he's the might BSer and it's tru simply because he says so.
This all started because Joe said Susan practices dirty tricks, he claims that Drucker or her supporters attacked Bob about his felony record. Joe doesn't say much about how Bob and his supporters attacked Susan on her ties to the Dem machine. Joe considers that OK because it's "true" (BSer logic). But why isn't it OK to bring up Bob's felony, its true too. Maybe he thinks Bob's felony was exaggerated, well so are Susan's ties, otherwise she'd be in jail.
My contention is Bob's dirty tricks are worse and I think the abuse I received with one small mention of Bob proves that point. Show me how anyone else on this forum has been ridiculed so viciously by so many IDs in such a short time for criticizing Susan... YOU CAN'T, so I rest my case, it has been PROVEN BEYOND ALL DOUBT that Bob and/or his supporters are much more vicious.
BSer will say he doesn't support Bob, but he can't explain his violent reaction to my mere mention of Bob's name, nor can he explain all the time he spent caputuring images from copyrighted sources and creating at least 6 videos to harass me. There is an easy explanation, that he is the liar. Again PROVEN BEYOND ALL DOUBT.
Why did I post this, because BSer asked for proof.
Tuesday, January 25, 2011
SOLONJOE'S TAKE ON THE WARD 5 VACANCY
In Joe's spirit of "Summer of Love" and in view of his falling out with his namesake website, I thought I'd bring back what the censors took away...
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=36777
4457.2. The debate?
by solonjoe3, 01/24/11 9:25 AM
Re: Ward 5 council applicants by SolonMoreCynical, 01/24/11 9:25 AM
McDrucker: This is a tricky business.
Kraus: I don’t envy you. No matter what you do, somebody is going to be mad
McDrucker: I could just let you guys on council decide.
Kraus: Well, even if you do, the applicants themselves will never believe you were hands off.
McDrucker: Let’s think about this logically. If I give it to Meany, she’ll vote in accordance with my wishes. Tom Day said I *could* pick her too. She’ll probably get reelected when the time comes. Some people will make fun of her lack of wherewithal. But so what. Call her the safe choice.
Kraus: All those things are true.
McDrucker: If I give it to Floyd, my debt will be repaid. He probably won’t be too much trouble. But he’ll have a hard time getting reelected.
Kraus: Why do you say that?
McDrucker: I don’t know if Solon is ready for a black council person yet. We are ready for an Asian council person yes. We are ready for a light skinned Hispanic so long as there is no accent. Heck, we may even be ready for Jewish one.
Kraus: I’m Jewish.
McDrucker: No, I’m not talking about your type. I was talking about full on Hebrew. But a black councilman in Solon, I’m not sure how it would work.
Kraus: How so?
McDrucker: For one thing, would we need to get another bathroom for instance?
Kraus: I don’t think so. We’re not Parma.
McDrucker: And what will the cops think?
Kraus: We’ll just put his picture up in the cop’s lounge along with a description of his car so they won’t pull him over any longer.
McDrucker: I don’t know. Maybe we should just go with one of the other candidates....
4457.2.1. An interview?
by solonjoe3, 01/24/11 10:53 AM
Re: Ward 5 council applicants by SolonMoreCynical, 01/24/11 10:53 AM
Unnamed Council Person(UCP): Your name is Floyd, right?
Floyd: That’s correct.
UCP: And you’re a lawyer.
Floyd: Right again.
UCP: And you’re friends with Bill Mason.
Floyd: I worked alongside him for many years.
UCP: And you’re black.
Floyd: Excuse me?
UCP: I asked if you know Eddie and Rick?
Floyd: Didn’t sound like that is what you said. Yes, I know Councilman Kraus and Bell very well. They are excellent attorneys.
UCP: Hardly.
Floyd: What was that?
UCP: I agree heartedly. Will your law practice allow you enough time to be fully engaged with your council duties?
Floyd: I have plenty of time.
UCP: No surprise there.
Floyd: What?
UCP: I said I’m glad to hear it. What do think about opera?
Floyd: Opera?
UCP: yes, opera.
Floyd: Not really a fan.
UCP: Figures.
Floyd: What? I keep hearing you mutter things. What’s that all about?
UCP: That’s a paranoid question. Do you want me to put paranoid down here on this interview sheet? No? I didn’t think so. One more question: Do you think black qualifies as an earth-tone color?
Floyd: Earth-tone? Black? I suppose.
UCP: You would. Thanks. We’ll let you know.
4457.2.1. All these posts are ephemeral
by solonjoe3, 01/25/11 9:16 AM
Re: Ward 5 council applicants by SolonMoreCynical, 01/25/11 9:16 AM
Worked hard? Hardly.
I've noticed if I post anything that makes the mayor look like a racist like reminding folks of how badly she handled the police pointing a gun at 12 year old black girl running to her mother at church, well, someone from city hall has the post yanked. Given that history, I think its fair game to parody the mayor's racial insensitity.
Here in another ward 5 interview-- about as the lame the other two that were taken down:
Interview Team (IT): Please take a seat miss….
Meany: Meany. Ms. Meany.
IT: Yes, Ms. That’s delightfully liberated of you. Are you a liberated girl?
Meany: Woman. I don’t go overboard, but yes I think of myself as an independent and liberated woman.
IT: Do you wear a bra?
Meany: I don’t think that’s any of your business.
IT: We don’t see why not? It’s perfectly ordinary question. It effects your look and as well says something about your need to flaunt the conventions of decent society. So we ask again, do you wear a bra?
Meany: Er, sometimes. Like when it’s muddy out.
IT: There. No that wasn’t hard. Muddy out? How charming? A problem with sagging? Is that what it’s about it? Is one lower than the other?
Meany: I fail understand why any of this is relevant. I don’t suppose you asked the men about their body parts.
IT: Oh, but we did. You can learn a lot about a person from their body parts. Would you like us to explain why?
Meany: No.
IT: Good. We like people without any natural curiosity. They make such could council members. Tell us, where do you summer?
Meany: Summer? Sometimes we go the Carolinas and rent a house on the beach.
IT: We? Who else is in the we? Do you have a fella? A special someone to while away the days?
Meany: I’m having a hard time understanding why any of these questions are pertinent as whether I’m qualified to get the appointment.
IT: Your perfectly right. These questions are just a way to show we’ve talked to you. We could have all just say peas and carrots, peas and carrots for 5 minutes. But then we have manners. And by the way, you’re not qualified, not that that matters. It’s actually rare we appoint someone who is qualified.
Meany: Is it already decided then?
IT: We don’t know. The mayor will tell us in time who we picked.
Meany: I see. Thank you for interview.
4462. The huddle
by solonjoe3, 01/25/11 1:11 PM
Bell: Ok, I just talked to the mayor. We’re on our own this time. No orders from downtime. No instructions from the mayor. None of them want their fingers on this decision.
Russo: What does that mean? Them?
Pelunis: It means they want us to take the backlash for not picking Floyd.
Mooney: Why wouldn’t we pick Floyd?
Richmond: He’s a lawyer.
Kraus: We’re all lawyers. We can’t use that excuse.
Russo: I’m not.
Mooney: You’re not what?
Kraus: yeah, sorry. I keep forgetting Russo’s not a lawyer. It’s just that he acts like one.
Russo: What’s that supposed to mean?
Kraus: you know, act like you know better than everybody else even if you haven’t a clue.
Richmond: Gentleman, back to the task at hand. What are we going to do?
Bell: Let me lay it out. We can’t pick Floyd because he’s a…. how shall I put…. I’m not a racist or anything, but he’s a NAACP lawyer. We can’t have NAACP lawyer on council. Look, we all hire lots of friends and family in Solon.
Mooney: So?
Bell: So all our friends and family are white. He’s gonna notice.
Pelunis: But if we don’t pick him, he’ll come charging in, calling us racists.
Russo: How do we know that?
Bell: They always do.
Mooney: “They?” Look, I don’t think we should be having this conversation. There is nothing wrong with Floyd. He worked for Mason. He’s a democrat. He’s smart. I say we pick him.
Pelunis: If that’s what they wanted, they would have told us. Because they didn’t tell us, it’s clear that’s not what they want.
Richmond: Which “they” are you talking about now?
Bell: He’s talking about downtown.
Russo: The ghetto?
Bell: No, you idiot. Look, let’s just pick Meany. We all know she’s an airhead, but they’ll blame it on the Mayor.
Russo: Which “they” is it this time?
Mooney: The public. I’ll admit the public is pretty gullible. I’m shocked they haven’t figured out what really went down at the corner of SOM and Miles. Or that they bought that story about the temporary road.
Bell: They are pretty stupid all right.
Russo: Quit using “they”.
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=36777
4457.2. The debate?
by solonjoe3, 01/24/11 9:25 AM
Re: Ward 5 council applicants by SolonMoreCynical, 01/24/11 9:25 AM
McDrucker: This is a tricky business.
Kraus: I don’t envy you. No matter what you do, somebody is going to be mad
McDrucker: I could just let you guys on council decide.
Kraus: Well, even if you do, the applicants themselves will never believe you were hands off.
McDrucker: Let’s think about this logically. If I give it to Meany, she’ll vote in accordance with my wishes. Tom Day said I *could* pick her too. She’ll probably get reelected when the time comes. Some people will make fun of her lack of wherewithal. But so what. Call her the safe choice.
Kraus: All those things are true.
McDrucker: If I give it to Floyd, my debt will be repaid. He probably won’t be too much trouble. But he’ll have a hard time getting reelected.
Kraus: Why do you say that?
McDrucker: I don’t know if Solon is ready for a black council person yet. We are ready for an Asian council person yes. We are ready for a light skinned Hispanic so long as there is no accent. Heck, we may even be ready for Jewish one.
Kraus: I’m Jewish.
McDrucker: No, I’m not talking about your type. I was talking about full on Hebrew. But a black councilman in Solon, I’m not sure how it would work.
Kraus: How so?
McDrucker: For one thing, would we need to get another bathroom for instance?
Kraus: I don’t think so. We’re not Parma.
McDrucker: And what will the cops think?
Kraus: We’ll just put his picture up in the cop’s lounge along with a description of his car so they won’t pull him over any longer.
McDrucker: I don’t know. Maybe we should just go with one of the other candidates....
4457.2.1. An interview?
by solonjoe3, 01/24/11 10:53 AM
Re: Ward 5 council applicants by SolonMoreCynical, 01/24/11 10:53 AM
Unnamed Council Person(UCP): Your name is Floyd, right?
Floyd: That’s correct.
UCP: And you’re a lawyer.
Floyd: Right again.
UCP: And you’re friends with Bill Mason.
Floyd: I worked alongside him for many years.
UCP: And you’re black.
Floyd: Excuse me?
UCP: I asked if you know Eddie and Rick?
Floyd: Didn’t sound like that is what you said. Yes, I know Councilman Kraus and Bell very well. They are excellent attorneys.
UCP: Hardly.
Floyd: What was that?
UCP: I agree heartedly. Will your law practice allow you enough time to be fully engaged with your council duties?
Floyd: I have plenty of time.
UCP: No surprise there.
Floyd: What?
UCP: I said I’m glad to hear it. What do think about opera?
Floyd: Opera?
UCP: yes, opera.
Floyd: Not really a fan.
UCP: Figures.
Floyd: What? I keep hearing you mutter things. What’s that all about?
UCP: That’s a paranoid question. Do you want me to put paranoid down here on this interview sheet? No? I didn’t think so. One more question: Do you think black qualifies as an earth-tone color?
Floyd: Earth-tone? Black? I suppose.
UCP: You would. Thanks. We’ll let you know.
4457.2.1. All these posts are ephemeral
by solonjoe3, 01/25/11 9:16 AM
Re: Ward 5 council applicants by SolonMoreCynical, 01/25/11 9:16 AM
Worked hard? Hardly.
I've noticed if I post anything that makes the mayor look like a racist like reminding folks of how badly she handled the police pointing a gun at 12 year old black girl running to her mother at church, well, someone from city hall has the post yanked. Given that history, I think its fair game to parody the mayor's racial insensitity.
Here in another ward 5 interview-- about as the lame the other two that were taken down:
Interview Team (IT): Please take a seat miss….
Meany: Meany. Ms. Meany.
IT: Yes, Ms. That’s delightfully liberated of you. Are you a liberated girl?
Meany: Woman. I don’t go overboard, but yes I think of myself as an independent and liberated woman.
IT: Do you wear a bra?
Meany: I don’t think that’s any of your business.
IT: We don’t see why not? It’s perfectly ordinary question. It effects your look and as well says something about your need to flaunt the conventions of decent society. So we ask again, do you wear a bra?
Meany: Er, sometimes. Like when it’s muddy out.
IT: There. No that wasn’t hard. Muddy out? How charming? A problem with sagging? Is that what it’s about it? Is one lower than the other?
Meany: I fail understand why any of this is relevant. I don’t suppose you asked the men about their body parts.
IT: Oh, but we did. You can learn a lot about a person from their body parts. Would you like us to explain why?
Meany: No.
IT: Good. We like people without any natural curiosity. They make such could council members. Tell us, where do you summer?
Meany: Summer? Sometimes we go the Carolinas and rent a house on the beach.
IT: We? Who else is in the we? Do you have a fella? A special someone to while away the days?
Meany: I’m having a hard time understanding why any of these questions are pertinent as whether I’m qualified to get the appointment.
IT: Your perfectly right. These questions are just a way to show we’ve talked to you. We could have all just say peas and carrots, peas and carrots for 5 minutes. But then we have manners. And by the way, you’re not qualified, not that that matters. It’s actually rare we appoint someone who is qualified.
Meany: Is it already decided then?
IT: We don’t know. The mayor will tell us in time who we picked.
Meany: I see. Thank you for interview.
4462. The huddle
by solonjoe3, 01/25/11 1:11 PM
Bell: Ok, I just talked to the mayor. We’re on our own this time. No orders from downtime. No instructions from the mayor. None of them want their fingers on this decision.
Russo: What does that mean? Them?
Pelunis: It means they want us to take the backlash for not picking Floyd.
Mooney: Why wouldn’t we pick Floyd?
Richmond: He’s a lawyer.
Kraus: We’re all lawyers. We can’t use that excuse.
Russo: I’m not.
Mooney: You’re not what?
Kraus: yeah, sorry. I keep forgetting Russo’s not a lawyer. It’s just that he acts like one.
Russo: What’s that supposed to mean?
Kraus: you know, act like you know better than everybody else even if you haven’t a clue.
Richmond: Gentleman, back to the task at hand. What are we going to do?
Bell: Let me lay it out. We can’t pick Floyd because he’s a…. how shall I put…. I’m not a racist or anything, but he’s a NAACP lawyer. We can’t have NAACP lawyer on council. Look, we all hire lots of friends and family in Solon.
Mooney: So?
Bell: So all our friends and family are white. He’s gonna notice.
Pelunis: But if we don’t pick him, he’ll come charging in, calling us racists.
Russo: How do we know that?
Bell: They always do.
Mooney: “They?” Look, I don’t think we should be having this conversation. There is nothing wrong with Floyd. He worked for Mason. He’s a democrat. He’s smart. I say we pick him.
Pelunis: If that’s what they wanted, they would have told us. Because they didn’t tell us, it’s clear that’s not what they want.
Richmond: Which “they” are you talking about now?
Bell: He’s talking about downtown.
Russo: The ghetto?
Bell: No, you idiot. Look, let’s just pick Meany. We all know she’s an airhead, but they’ll blame it on the Mayor.
Russo: Which “they” is it this time?
Mooney: The public. I’ll admit the public is pretty gullible. I’m shocked they haven’t figured out what really went down at the corner of SOM and Miles. Or that they bought that story about the temporary road.
Bell: They are pretty stupid all right.
Russo: Quit using “they”.
Sunday, January 17, 2010
The forum has gone to the dogs
I was trying to come up with a good title for this post and I think this is very appropriate. I'm speaking of the cleveland.com Solon Coumunty Forum, of course.
When I first started on the forum it was clear that "Joe" was the main man there. It was also clear that there was a tension there, where people would attack others. I was welcomed as all newcomers are, as long as they don't rock the boat or upset the balance of power.
The main topic, let's call it Political Satire (and that's being kind) really has no place on that forum, sure much of the political satire is directed at Solon, but it is so much of the content that the intended content, for neighbors to discuss topics of local interest, is drown out, lost in a sea of Joe's endless chatter. This occurs with the use of classic Propaganda techniques, drowning out, shouting down, censoring (reporting content as an "abuse"), tired tirade repetition, and reverse victimization.
In the beginning Joe used good writing, wit, banter, to subtly control the flow of discussion. As the Mayoral campaign got going, he stopped sugar coating his turds and got more brutal as his message continued to fail.
First came the Bobist's and their relentless attack on Drucker, democrats, "da machine", and anyone who didn't swallow the message according to Bob.
They even, with Bob's knowledge, took aim at me, IRL with violation of my privacy and intimidation.
It was ironic to see the Bobist message of Dirty Drucker (once even Very Dirty Drucker as in VDD/VD Drucker) while Bob was conducting an extremely dirty propaganda campaign aimed at his opponent. Reverse Victimization at work.
Then came the outsider trolls - BSer and CK, fresh recruits willing to do Joe's bidding. Gone was the "agree to disagree" civility.
It was BSer who first called me an Internet Dog (the concept that Internet Anonymity allows even a "Dog" to pretend to be someone important) to discredit me. I turned that around and said since my personal privacy was violated I was the only one who could prove that I wasn't a Dog (signing off as "Woof Woof").
After the election things died down, the trolls were around, but the rest of the Bobist took a vacation to lick their wounds, to review why dirty tricks didn't work. So in the first few days of the new administration, what happens, Joe comes back in a flurry of repetitious, unrelenting attacks. No facts needed, the Bobist conclusion is the only one opinion he would tolerate. I stepped it up, he stepped it up, it got ugly.
Then he took another break. I continued to report what I observed - lies, hypocrisy, propaganda, all to discourage our freedom of speech. A message that they did not want to hear.
Joe came up with a new strategy - "da rules, da rules". He could skirt them, I shouldn't. Then came the demands, first by BSer, then by Joe, picking up the outsider's bad habits. I was not allowed to comment to his posts - a new Joe rule, over and above cleveland.com. Ironic considering Joe often derails discussion with his "comedy". So when I commented on posts of interest, remaining on topic, that happened to be his, he cranked it up another notch, threats including violating my privacy, which he holds dear for himself, but apparently its optional for others who don't play by "his" rules.
Apparently one of my big infractions was identifying him as the King of his MBoT. I wasn't trying to be complementary, I was just observing a fact, all the interruptions, the devils advocate opposing everything, the satire, no one can say anything without getting the Joe Stamp. If he actually had something to add to the discussions, besides FTA, free beer, cheers, then that wouldn't be bad. Joe is masquerading as the senior statesman and in essence is the biggest Troll, King of the Bobists and MBoTs.
I have responded to a lot of posts, but I've tried to stay on topic. I'm not a sports fan, so if someone is talking about whether this coach should stay or go, I won't bother them. If I were Joe, I'd jump in, off topic, and end with "cheers", to be followed by the MBoTs who'd likely insult the original poster and make disparaging remarks about the city the forum is named after, from all places CH. Why are outsiders butting into our affairs, with an air of self appointed authority?
Encouraged by Joe's boldness, the Bobists are coming back to bully all those with different opinions.
The Forum is so full of dogs, and their waste product, that I can't cope with the smell. There comes a time when you have to say, "What's the Point?". I know some real people who I can talk to outside the forum, there's a few other's I'd like to know. But I'm just tired of the (dog) shit. I have more important battles to fight. If you ever get rid of those feral vermin or tame them, send me a note.
When I first started on the forum it was clear that "Joe" was the main man there. It was also clear that there was a tension there, where people would attack others. I was welcomed as all newcomers are, as long as they don't rock the boat or upset the balance of power.
The main topic, let's call it Political Satire (and that's being kind) really has no place on that forum, sure much of the political satire is directed at Solon, but it is so much of the content that the intended content, for neighbors to discuss topics of local interest, is drown out, lost in a sea of Joe's endless chatter. This occurs with the use of classic Propaganda techniques, drowning out, shouting down, censoring (reporting content as an "abuse"), tired tirade repetition, and reverse victimization.
In the beginning Joe used good writing, wit, banter, to subtly control the flow of discussion. As the Mayoral campaign got going, he stopped sugar coating his turds and got more brutal as his message continued to fail.
First came the Bobist's and their relentless attack on Drucker, democrats, "da machine", and anyone who didn't swallow the message according to Bob.
They even, with Bob's knowledge, took aim at me, IRL with violation of my privacy and intimidation.
It was ironic to see the Bobist message of Dirty Drucker (once even Very Dirty Drucker as in VDD/VD Drucker) while Bob was conducting an extremely dirty propaganda campaign aimed at his opponent. Reverse Victimization at work.
Then came the outsider trolls - BSer and CK, fresh recruits willing to do Joe's bidding. Gone was the "agree to disagree" civility.
It was BSer who first called me an Internet Dog (the concept that Internet Anonymity allows even a "Dog" to pretend to be someone important) to discredit me. I turned that around and said since my personal privacy was violated I was the only one who could prove that I wasn't a Dog (signing off as "Woof Woof").
After the election things died down, the trolls were around, but the rest of the Bobist took a vacation to lick their wounds, to review why dirty tricks didn't work. So in the first few days of the new administration, what happens, Joe comes back in a flurry of repetitious, unrelenting attacks. No facts needed, the Bobist conclusion is the only one opinion he would tolerate. I stepped it up, he stepped it up, it got ugly.
Then he took another break. I continued to report what I observed - lies, hypocrisy, propaganda, all to discourage our freedom of speech. A message that they did not want to hear.
Joe came up with a new strategy - "da rules, da rules". He could skirt them, I shouldn't. Then came the demands, first by BSer, then by Joe, picking up the outsider's bad habits. I was not allowed to comment to his posts - a new Joe rule, over and above cleveland.com. Ironic considering Joe often derails discussion with his "comedy". So when I commented on posts of interest, remaining on topic, that happened to be his, he cranked it up another notch, threats including violating my privacy, which he holds dear for himself, but apparently its optional for others who don't play by "his" rules.
Apparently one of my big infractions was identifying him as the King of his MBoT. I wasn't trying to be complementary, I was just observing a fact, all the interruptions, the devils advocate opposing everything, the satire, no one can say anything without getting the Joe Stamp. If he actually had something to add to the discussions, besides FTA, free beer, cheers, then that wouldn't be bad. Joe is masquerading as the senior statesman and in essence is the biggest Troll, King of the Bobists and MBoTs.
I have responded to a lot of posts, but I've tried to stay on topic. I'm not a sports fan, so if someone is talking about whether this coach should stay or go, I won't bother them. If I were Joe, I'd jump in, off topic, and end with "cheers", to be followed by the MBoTs who'd likely insult the original poster and make disparaging remarks about the city the forum is named after, from all places CH. Why are outsiders butting into our affairs, with an air of self appointed authority?
Encouraged by Joe's boldness, the Bobists are coming back to bully all those with different opinions.
The Forum is so full of dogs, and their waste product, that I can't cope with the smell. There comes a time when you have to say, "What's the Point?". I know some real people who I can talk to outside the forum, there's a few other's I'd like to know. But I'm just tired of the (dog) shit. I have more important battles to fight. If you ever get rid of those feral vermin or tame them, send me a note.
Saturday, December 26, 2009
Christmas Wish Deemed Inapropriate
Originally Posted as 3108. Chutzpah/bbr/3097
by bcorky, 12/26/09 11:06 ET
I had to work until 4:30 Xmas eve (fiscal year end) and had company coming for dinner that night so I was too busy to answer this before Christmas but it still deserves a response.
PERHAPS if there were more bbr's in the world keeping tabs on elected officials at all levels we wouldn't keep finding and getting the cavalier 'let them eat cake' attitude we find much too frequently in politicians.
Perhaps, just perhaps, if people had been paying attention, all the shenanigans at the county level would not have taken years and the feds to unravel. I see in the PD that shyster Norton who won the mayor's race in East Cleveland is already lining his pockets and their budget problems are legendary.
My Christmas wish is for THOUSANDS of bbr's who care enough to hold our elected officials' feet to the fire and I thank God daily for our free press because if we lose that we're screwed.
These responses were logged, then CK responded to SolonPol with a reference to Drugs and Comas and then the whole post was removed.
1. Perhaps by solonjoe3, 12/26/09 New!
2. agree-squeaky wheel gets... by solonrider3, 12/26/09 New!
Sorry SR3, your post wasn't still in my cache, so I missed capturing it.
3. You are all wrong... by SolonPol, 12/26/09 New!
Originally Posted as 3108.1. Perhaps
by solonjoe3, 12/26/09 11:48 ET
As I've said before, I applaud anybody who steps up and speaks in public. We need more of that. But on this forum, endless personal attacks, while often humorous, are in the end tiresome.
Council and Mayor need the input from citizens to keep them on their toes. But I've also noticed they can make bad decisions to appease a squeaky wheel.
A famous example is our sink hole guy. The city spent taxpayers' dollars to investigate a private matter that they knew was nonsense. That is a public gift to a private person.
In the case of Bainbridge road, the real harm was committed by the county, not the city. Yet the city will use city dollars to appease the residents. This is also known as welfare for the middle class or robbing peter to pay paul. Now I don't mind robbing "Rob" to pay everyone, but subsidizing private citizens with city money is not something to celebrate.
The squeaky wheel accomplishes this. Talking loudly and often at meetings sure does this. But quality, logic and fairness in speech is just as important as "showing up" with a confrontational personality.
Cheers.
Originally Posted as 3108.3. You are all wrong...
by SolonPol, 12/26/09 17:08 ET
Nothing is as it seems, its all a grand illusion controlled by da machine, a matrix in which we feel we have control when we actually are manipulated.
bcorcky - there are a thousand bbr's, of the thousand, many hundreds are never heard from, of the hundred that are heard from, its only for a moment and then the true power mongers (on this forum those are the trolls - Joe3, BSer, CK) are drowned them out with useless noise. Only a few, by shouting at the top of their lungs, by getting livid with the Troll Power Structure here and IRL, are actually heard long enough that a few people notice. And the few people who do notice don't even hear 25% of what they say. BBR has been censored even on Christmas Day, that's because da machine, da trolls, da censors, never sleep, they know no holiday.
Joe3 - King of the Trolls, Village Idiot, part of da machine, the Solon Gulluci to his Russo master. You have ALMOST everyone fooled. You are da machine. Da Gullucci. The drowner out of the squeaky wheel. The Paulson Propagandist. And the purveyor of many lies and half truths, just as in this post...
FACT - No one in Solon gets $14M, its not even $14M anymore, it was downsized last week. No one in Solon gets to touch it, not for a moment, yet all covet and answer to the Illusionary God of Free Money.
FACT - To this day, there is a cover up of the MOT 2 way decision, many people have asked, many people have lied and obfuscated to prevent the truth from being known. The result is that over 1 million dollars will be expended for the cheapest grade of concrete to handle the MOT in an unprecedented manner (full width construction) involving over a quarter million sq ft of pavement, 5000 cu yds, over 500 full truck loads, to be used for less than a year and put in a land fill. Only when this project is over, and the court depositions are dry, and the naturestone driveways are awarded to the power mongers behind this gift to the pavement company will it be clear. Common citizens duped again, with the help of the Gullucci led trolls shutting people up and lying to protect the guilty.
FACT - The city is in fact responsible, it has been stipulated to in County Court by County Officials willing to throw City Officials under the Bus when it comes to money. Joe, don't speak of what you don't know, it makes you sound more ignorant than I assume you are.
FACT - He who has the money rules, developers have money, they have overbuilt on swap land in Solon causing many water problems. The city allowed them to do that. They share culpability, they know that, and try not to admit it in public too often. Do you suppose its the sink hole guys fault? Those in the know, know better, and so do you Joe, but you've chosen to lie about it.
SR3 - Yes the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but before it does, it generates lots of friction using lots of energy and causes great personal toll. Alas the squeaky wheel gets the grease too late and is heard from no more. There is more hope with Susan in, but still there is much power of status quo for even her, with all her energy to deal with.
So lets all have free beer at the Annex, maybe the trolls that run, shout down, drown out, stifle, and censor, this forum (lead by Joe), will drink one too many and fall from their high stool, so the common citizen can once more be heard from.
Woof Woof
by bcorky, 12/26/09 11:06 ET
I had to work until 4:30 Xmas eve (fiscal year end) and had company coming for dinner that night so I was too busy to answer this before Christmas but it still deserves a response.
PERHAPS if there were more bbr's in the world keeping tabs on elected officials at all levels we wouldn't keep finding and getting the cavalier 'let them eat cake' attitude we find much too frequently in politicians.
Perhaps, just perhaps, if people had been paying attention, all the shenanigans at the county level would not have taken years and the feds to unravel. I see in the PD that shyster Norton who won the mayor's race in East Cleveland is already lining his pockets and their budget problems are legendary.
My Christmas wish is for THOUSANDS of bbr's who care enough to hold our elected officials' feet to the fire and I thank God daily for our free press because if we lose that we're screwed.
These responses were logged, then CK responded to SolonPol with a reference to Drugs and Comas and then the whole post was removed.
1. Perhaps by solonjoe3, 12/26/09 New!
2. agree-squeaky wheel gets... by solonrider3, 12/26/09 New!
Sorry SR3, your post wasn't still in my cache, so I missed capturing it.
3. You are all wrong... by SolonPol, 12/26/09 New!
Originally Posted as 3108.1. Perhaps
by solonjoe3, 12/26/09 11:48 ET
As I've said before, I applaud anybody who steps up and speaks in public. We need more of that. But on this forum, endless personal attacks, while often humorous, are in the end tiresome.
Council and Mayor need the input from citizens to keep them on their toes. But I've also noticed they can make bad decisions to appease a squeaky wheel.
A famous example is our sink hole guy. The city spent taxpayers' dollars to investigate a private matter that they knew was nonsense. That is a public gift to a private person.
In the case of Bainbridge road, the real harm was committed by the county, not the city. Yet the city will use city dollars to appease the residents. This is also known as welfare for the middle class or robbing peter to pay paul. Now I don't mind robbing "Rob" to pay everyone, but subsidizing private citizens with city money is not something to celebrate.
The squeaky wheel accomplishes this. Talking loudly and often at meetings sure does this. But quality, logic and fairness in speech is just as important as "showing up" with a confrontational personality.
Cheers.
Originally Posted as 3108.3. You are all wrong...
by SolonPol, 12/26/09 17:08 ET
Nothing is as it seems, its all a grand illusion controlled by da machine, a matrix in which we feel we have control when we actually are manipulated.
bcorcky - there are a thousand bbr's, of the thousand, many hundreds are never heard from, of the hundred that are heard from, its only for a moment and then the true power mongers (on this forum those are the trolls - Joe3, BSer, CK) are drowned them out with useless noise. Only a few, by shouting at the top of their lungs, by getting livid with the Troll Power Structure here and IRL, are actually heard long enough that a few people notice. And the few people who do notice don't even hear 25% of what they say. BBR has been censored even on Christmas Day, that's because da machine, da trolls, da censors, never sleep, they know no holiday.
Joe3 - King of the Trolls, Village Idiot, part of da machine, the Solon Gulluci to his Russo master. You have ALMOST everyone fooled. You are da machine. Da Gullucci. The drowner out of the squeaky wheel. The Paulson Propagandist. And the purveyor of many lies and half truths, just as in this post...
FACT - No one in Solon gets $14M, its not even $14M anymore, it was downsized last week. No one in Solon gets to touch it, not for a moment, yet all covet and answer to the Illusionary God of Free Money.
FACT - To this day, there is a cover up of the MOT 2 way decision, many people have asked, many people have lied and obfuscated to prevent the truth from being known. The result is that over 1 million dollars will be expended for the cheapest grade of concrete to handle the MOT in an unprecedented manner (full width construction) involving over a quarter million sq ft of pavement, 5000 cu yds, over 500 full truck loads, to be used for less than a year and put in a land fill. Only when this project is over, and the court depositions are dry, and the naturestone driveways are awarded to the power mongers behind this gift to the pavement company will it be clear. Common citizens duped again, with the help of the Gullucci led trolls shutting people up and lying to protect the guilty.
FACT - The city is in fact responsible, it has been stipulated to in County Court by County Officials willing to throw City Officials under the Bus when it comes to money. Joe, don't speak of what you don't know, it makes you sound more ignorant than I assume you are.
FACT - He who has the money rules, developers have money, they have overbuilt on swap land in Solon causing many water problems. The city allowed them to do that. They share culpability, they know that, and try not to admit it in public too often. Do you suppose its the sink hole guys fault? Those in the know, know better, and so do you Joe, but you've chosen to lie about it.
SR3 - Yes the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but before it does, it generates lots of friction using lots of energy and causes great personal toll. Alas the squeaky wheel gets the grease too late and is heard from no more. There is more hope with Susan in, but still there is much power of status quo for even her, with all her energy to deal with.
So lets all have free beer at the Annex, maybe the trolls that run, shout down, drown out, stifle, and censor, this forum (lead by Joe), will drink one too many and fall from their high stool, so the common citizen can once more be heard from.
Woof Woof
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