My posting to the Cleveland Solon Forum has come to an abrupt end... I made many politically charged statements under the screen name of SolonPol and for that I received criticism, threats, post deletions, personal info released on the web, emails from city officials, etc When harassed I stood up and fought back calling people who wanted their privacy but were invading mine out for who they were... Apparently the Plain Dealer thought it better to get rid of one rabble rouser than all the people harassing him for speaking up on political issues. This is truly a democracy in action, the masses have voted and I lost. No good deed goes unpunished, we can see that today.
5156. SolonPol is no more
by bbrdres, 02/12/12 5:38 PM
Check it out, every single post and my ID are gone from the Solon Community Forum http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf , just happened in the last hour. Probably this one (BBRdRes) too will be gone very soon... Good riddens, Joe and others stifled everything I said anyway.
But isn't it grand to live in a country that values free speech so much that it allows harassment and name calling for some and just completely silences others...
I'm not talking about deleting a few posts where I call my harassers names, I'm talking about EVERY SINGLE POST I'VE EVER MADE, even friendly posts, chit chat posts, etc. EVERYTHING!
NO WARNING, no notice, poof scorched Earth, posting one hour, ID AND ALL POSTS gone the next, on a Sunday no less.
God Bless America, because it sure needs it as fouled up as it is.
5155.2. He was killed
by bbrdres, 02/12/12 5:49 PM
Re: Where's McPol today? by lostlimber, 02/12/12 5:49 PM
off of this forum, for speaking his mind, for defending his rights, for being unpopular for both sticking up for and criticizing the current admin. He didn't joke, he didn't whine, he seriously wanted better for Solon, he didn't fit in.
His reward, banishment from the forum! That will teach anyone here to seriously talk of politics.
5156.1. What the ???
by SolonBiker, 02/12/12 5:48 PM
Re: SolonPol is no more by bbrdres, 02/12/12 5:48 PM
Wait, is bbrdres = SolonPol?? They disappeared SolonPol??? What in the world is going on here?? I would have to think this is a correctable error.
5156.1.1. No error - RETRIBUTION!
by bbrdres, 02/12/12 6:12 PM
Re: SolonPol is no more by bbrdres, 02/12/12 6:12 PM
FREE SPEECH isn't really free, never has been, never will be!
Yes its me, I have 2 IDs, BBRdRes which I haven't used much since the election and SolonPol which has been banished for pissing off the trolls and the city.
But using a new ID, right after being banished is a good way to get it deleted too. They've sent me a none to subtle message and I'm not as dumb as LL who continues to harass despite being asked to stop. This isn't the forum asking, this is them demanding.
It takes a lot to get a permanent ban and deletion, ask Joe, he's 3 for a reason, he used to be SolonJoe1. Seriously Joe, I'd like some advice on how it went down with you, did you get a blanket delete of everything or is that a new feature of this updated forum?
So Biker and Wally, I've enjoyed our chats, but I am officially persona non-grata here. You know my web site http://solonpol.blogspot.com/ and my email solonpol at gmail dot com... But here on the Solon Community Forum, I've been run out of town...
Sunday, February 12, 2012
Saturday, February 11, 2012
Creepy isn't funny
5150. Creepy isn't funny
by SolonPol, 02/11/12 3:31 PM
not if you are the target of creepiness.
So Joe, back off Toni a bit, and Russo, please, that's just stomach turning.
The first 2-3 times LL asked that question at the exact same time something was going on at city hall that I was attending, some of it on TV. Could be a coincidence, but its nice if LL is actually being a couch potato politician rather than watching some even dumber reality show on TV.
When that didn't work surewoodi comes up with a threat out of the blue (hasn't posted anything for months) relating to my divorce case number, notdrucker, part of the original threat two years ago "piles on" (despite BSer denying it as if it wasn't a fact) after being non-existent since the election, clearly an alternate anonymous ID, just like the SolonPol ID was supposed to be. So these hypocrites can take "hit and run shots" and maintain their free speech and privacy WHILE DENYING MINE. These are the same people (surewoodi and notdrucker) who were complaining about Drucker posts and supporting Bob. This is why I accuse his supporters of being dirty, none of Druckers took any personal shots at Bob's supporters, only at Bob.
But what's the point. The creepiness factor went up when I bucked the trend here and argued successfully in some cases about Sally's firing. Everyone wants to criticize Drucker for firing this deadwood AWOL stunt maker and I argued against it. I was exercising MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH, AND WAS BEING PENALIZED FOR DOING SO. This happens when ever I start winning an unpopular argument. If I'm fighting for something pro-admin the creeps (that supported Bob) come out with my personal info, if I'm fighting for something against the admin the censors come out and take it off the site.
I CAN'T WIN, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY I CAN'T EXERCISE MY RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN. THAT SHOULD BOTHER EVERYONE.
EVERYONE HERE SHOULD CONDEMN THAT IN THE STRONGEST WAY POSSIBLE, BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T, THE NEXT VICTIM OF IT WILL BE YOU!
So seriously Joe, I stick up for your views that I don't always agree with, I repost them on my blog after the city deletes them because I believe in the principal of free speech, heck I even offer you your own vehicle to do the same since your name sake website doesn't do that anymore. The offer still stands, I don't have to know who you are, we can do it by email, I'll make it easy and teach you how to update it yourself.
THAT'S HOW STRONGLY I BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH, SO GIVE ME A LITTLE SUPPORT WHEN THESE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO TAKE MINE AWAY. THIS FORUM SHOULD BAND TOGETHER AND CHASE THESE PEOPLE AWAY, NOT FOR ME, BUT FOR WHAT THEY MIGHT DO TO ALL OF YOU SOMEDAY IF THEY DON'T LIKE YOU WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.
by SolonPol, 02/11/12 3:31 PM
not if you are the target of creepiness.
So Joe, back off Toni a bit, and Russo, please, that's just stomach turning.
The first 2-3 times LL asked that question at the exact same time something was going on at city hall that I was attending, some of it on TV. Could be a coincidence, but its nice if LL is actually being a couch potato politician rather than watching some even dumber reality show on TV.
When that didn't work surewoodi comes up with a threat out of the blue (hasn't posted anything for months) relating to my divorce case number, notdrucker, part of the original threat two years ago "piles on" (despite BSer denying it as if it wasn't a fact) after being non-existent since the election, clearly an alternate anonymous ID, just like the SolonPol ID was supposed to be. So these hypocrites can take "hit and run shots" and maintain their free speech and privacy WHILE DENYING MINE. These are the same people (surewoodi and notdrucker) who were complaining about Drucker posts and supporting Bob. This is why I accuse his supporters of being dirty, none of Druckers took any personal shots at Bob's supporters, only at Bob.
But what's the point. The creepiness factor went up when I bucked the trend here and argued successfully in some cases about Sally's firing. Everyone wants to criticize Drucker for firing this deadwood AWOL stunt maker and I argued against it. I was exercising MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH, AND WAS BEING PENALIZED FOR DOING SO. This happens when ever I start winning an unpopular argument. If I'm fighting for something pro-admin the creeps (that supported Bob) come out with my personal info, if I'm fighting for something against the admin the censors come out and take it off the site.
I CAN'T WIN, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY I CAN'T EXERCISE MY RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN. THAT SHOULD BOTHER EVERYONE.
EVERYONE HERE SHOULD CONDEMN THAT IN THE STRONGEST WAY POSSIBLE, BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T, THE NEXT VICTIM OF IT WILL BE YOU!
So seriously Joe, I stick up for your views that I don't always agree with, I repost them on my blog after the city deletes them because I believe in the principal of free speech, heck I even offer you your own vehicle to do the same since your name sake website doesn't do that anymore. The offer still stands, I don't have to know who you are, we can do it by email, I'll make it easy and teach you how to update it yourself.
THAT'S HOW STRONGLY I BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH, SO GIVE ME A LITTLE SUPPORT WHEN THESE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO TAKE MINE AWAY. THIS FORUM SHOULD BAND TOGETHER AND CHASE THESE PEOPLE AWAY, NOT FOR ME, BUT FOR WHAT THEY MIGHT DO TO ALL OF YOU SOMEDAY IF THEY DON'T LIKE YOU WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.
Thursday, February 9, 2012
Censorship at its absolute worst...
or what happened at City Hall the last two days
From 1:00 am to 3:30 am I posted this list of posts, by 8:30am they were all deleted...5136. Wed at City Hall by SolonPol, 02/09/12 1:09 AM
1. FREEDOM!! by bystander75, 02/09/12 1:12 AM
1. Ala Braveheart? by SolonPol, 02/09/12 1:14 AM
2. Deer Killing by SolonPol, 02/09/12 1:14 AM
3. Public Records by SolonPol, 02/09/12 1:33 AM
4. Police Dept Bldg troubles by SolonPol, 02/09/12 1:46 AM
5. Historic Homes by SolonPol, 02/09/12 2:20 AM
6. Aurora Rd by SolonPol, 02/09/12 2:46 AM
7. Stop dodging me Eddie by SolonPol, 02/09/12 2:54 AM
8. Gimme a break by SolonPol, 02/09/12 3:27 AM
SO I responded with
5136.1. Censorship at its absolute worst...
by SolonPol, 02/09/12 10:30 AM
Re: Very sad... by bystander75, 02/09/12 10:30 AM
So this forum kept surewoodi's threat to intimidate me and violate the forum rules, but very swiftly deleted my commentary on city hall actions. This is a new record, usually it takes city hall at least 12 hours to respond, this time they not only responded in less than 5 hours, but did it before 9am. We have an early riser at city hall. I see they left surewoodi's threat but deleted my response to it.
So what got it pulled? THERE WERE NO UNTRUE STATEMENTS, THERE WAS NO MOCKING OF PUBLIC OFFICIALS, THERE WAS JUST THE SAD SAD TRUTH ABOUT WHAT WENT ON AT CITY HALL FOR THE LAST TWO DAYS.
Well BSer, I'm glad you read it and liked it. For the rest of you, well it will be reposted to my own blog far beyond the reach of local politicians to interfere with, and if you don't like, just talk to me about solving the issues I raised and I'll be happy to report that too. Thanks to this forums buggy nature I composed all the posts on Notepad++ and pasted the rough draft into this forum.
See for all the "in the Mayor's hip pocket" crap I get, I'm really just a balanced reporter who often has a differing view from the masses. But when I am critical of city hall, they notice and respond quickly.
5136. Wed at City Hall
Here's a run down of what I learned at city hall today. Most of it from the Safety Meeting, some of it from conversations. Should I write this post or bow to intimidation of cowardly chickenshits who want to intimidate me?
5136.2 Deer Killing
The police chief said that only 3 shooters are active in Solon, so on any given day 20 of the sites aren't active. The Patch's list is slightly smaller than the older list on the SolonDeer sites because several kill sites were dropped.
The same guns and silencers are being used as White Buffalo used, but the Feds (USDA WS) are using standard ammo, White Buffalo used a hand packed lighter load ammo, just strong enough to bring down a deer, but with less power than standard ammo.
The part time semi retired Hromco is in charge of all notification issues. Supposedly all adjacent properties to a kill site are to be notified each time killing is done.
5136.3 Public Records
I noticed that the LPV site is no longer listed for archive videos, any meeting video before Sept 2011 is no longer available online. IF you know which video you want you can buy it from city hall for $3 per meeting. Previously 2 full years of video were online.
Meeting minutes used to be available from 2005, now there is only one year listed, with 2 years possible if you search for it. The search process has some inconsistency, its one of many new web site issues that I'll be reporting to the city.
This is hard to understand given that these records are already stored electronically and only use a modest amount of storage.
Yesterday at the financial budget meetings the director talked about our huge amount of paper records and associated storage costs. He will be proposing a more aggressive records retention schedule. He also discussed a major challenge in scanning city records, apparently there is a huge backlog in the process.
5136.4 Police Dept Bldg troubles
The 12 yo building has some major HVAC problems for some time now. Parts of the building can't be heated in the winter and drop to under 60 degrees. Another problem occurred with the air conditioning in the server room. The committee approved an RFQ for a consultant to analyze and recommend an HVAC solution.
At yesterdays Finance Meeting they announced police dispatch software is incompatible with the new phone system so $18K is being budgeted to replace it.
5136.5 Historic Homes
An architect reviewed the condition of the historic buildings on BB Rd, the Solon Historical Society, the Lynch House, and the Bull House. The Mayor reported safety violations in the Historical Society building that she corrected immediately since the building is open to the public. Other issues are awaiting action of the Safety and Public Properties Committee. It was mentioned that these costs were very large, one set of costs for safety was large, but the cost to open the buildings involved accessibility and current building code issues was even larger.
Kraus said that our long term plans should not include the city owning the Lynch and Bull houses. Russo pointed out that we have to weigh and justify the future usage of the homes with the cost. The Mayor pointed out that the previous Master Plan's idea to build an amphitheatre there is no longer. See http://bettersolon.blogspot.com/search/label/MasterPlan
In similar news the red home at the Community Park is city owned and has water leaking and safety hazards. The committee approved the demolition of the building, it will be done by the city's service dept for considerably less money than a private contractor. The garage will remain for now. The Mayor mentioned the Master Plan, being the only citizen to attend all meetings (those appointed didn't), I don't recall any such discussion.
5136.6 Aurora Rd
An overview of the Aurora Rd intersection was given at the end of the meeting in a last minute revision of the agenda. It was discussed about 43 min in and will be fully presented next month.
This is a new traffic study which contradicts but doesn't supersede the unpublished (as yet after 1 year of requests) the Master Plan Traffic Study, adopted as Chapter 23, but most recently the online version http://solonohio.org/index.aspx?nid=272 has removed all chapter headings to make it more readable because of missing chapters (which still exist today after the committee has stopped regular meetings)
See http://bettersolon.blogspot.com/2011/03/master-plan-feb-10.html or http://bettersolon.blogspot.com/search/label/MasterPlan
The MasterPlan called Aurora Rd the most immediate problem. Now that Geauga Lake is closed, traffic is better, but that property will not remain undeveloped. The new traffic study recognizes that but doesn't seem to have a long term solution. Several ideas were discussed, intersection by intersection from SOM to the county line.
One big possibility is to take away the bike lanes used by bikes, pedestrians and mail trucks and restripe the road to three lanes, one in each direction and a left turn lane so traffic isn't impeded by those stopping to make left turns.
5136.7 Stop dodging me Eddie
Geez, three days in a row. I told you I've got stuff on my mind, you're my councilman, and we need to talk. Is this avoidance technique what got Joe started? Funny after you dodged me yesterday your former opponent called to discuss these items... And you couldn't remember who he was? Didn't you see his sign on my front yard or that we were talking Monday night?
Come on Eddie, if you're going to be Mayor ya need to start paying attention to the squeaky wheels in the city. Call me or email me...
5136.8 Give Me a Break
Horse Crossing
Didn't write this item that night
Postscript / Updates
Called Eddie at lunch, we had a nice conversation about opportunities to improve Solon Govt, we agreed that the city web site/transparent govt and the MasterPlan were two specific areas in need of large improvements.
More too come...
Responses
More too come...
Status: Rough Draft, updated 12:52
It's about fair fighting...
I think BSer is a little sensitive, just mentioning him shouldn't garner that level of name calling, but I can just chalk that one up. I get more irritated at the ID guessing game, and I'm sure that you Joe can appreciate just how important being anonymous is. If city hall ever discovers who you really are, well, you probably have to move out of the city, if not the county.
But consider this, while you all remember my defense of this administration, I've been critical here too, despite city hall knowing who SolonPol is. I know this because I've been contacted by various people in govt, within 24 hours of a critical post.
I started posting as BBRdRes and everyone knew who I was. When I wanted to branch to other topics I posted under another ID to be anonymous, a luxury you all enjoy. But after being extremely critical, people here couldn't help themselves but to VIOLATE the forum rules and try to determine my IRL ID. BSer chides me even today, years later, by tying my public BB Rd work to my current ID. We had lots of fights about this, and to your credit Joe, you still stand up for what is right, despite some strong disagreements we've had.
But knowing who someone is IRL is one thing, talking about it here is another. Asking where I am when they see me on TV at city hall is edging toward creepy. But doing background checks on me, citing court cases, traffic tickets, etc, telling me when my bike is parked outside my home or not is JUST TOO FAR, ITS BEYOND CREEPY, ITS GETTING TO BE STALKING...
AND STILL IT DOES NOT END THERE... When I'm making a strong argument, especially if I'm winning it, OUT COMES THE PERSONAL INFO, a not very veiled attempt to STIFLE MY FREE SPEECH, TO INTIMIDATE, TO HARASS.
WHY!!! WTF!!! WHO DO THESE CHICKENSHITS THINK THEY ARE -- PRESERVING THEIR PRIVACY AND FREE SPEECH WHILE DENYING ME MINE!
ITS BULLSHIT PLAIN AND SIMPLE, PERPETRATED BY COWARDLY ASSHOLES!
NOTE: this is the uncensored version that couldn't be posted...
But consider this, while you all remember my defense of this administration, I've been critical here too, despite city hall knowing who SolonPol is. I know this because I've been contacted by various people in govt, within 24 hours of a critical post.
I started posting as BBRdRes and everyone knew who I was. When I wanted to branch to other topics I posted under another ID to be anonymous, a luxury you all enjoy. But after being extremely critical, people here couldn't help themselves but to VIOLATE the forum rules and try to determine my IRL ID. BSer chides me even today, years later, by tying my public BB Rd work to my current ID. We had lots of fights about this, and to your credit Joe, you still stand up for what is right, despite some strong disagreements we've had.
But knowing who someone is IRL is one thing, talking about it here is another. Asking where I am when they see me on TV at city hall is edging toward creepy. But doing background checks on me, citing court cases, traffic tickets, etc, telling me when my bike is parked outside my home or not is JUST TOO FAR, ITS BEYOND CREEPY, ITS GETTING TO BE STALKING...
AND STILL IT DOES NOT END THERE... When I'm making a strong argument, especially if I'm winning it, OUT COMES THE PERSONAL INFO, a not very veiled attempt to STIFLE MY FREE SPEECH, TO INTIMIDATE, TO HARASS.
WHY!!! WTF!!! WHO DO THESE CHICKENSHITS THINK THEY ARE -- PRESERVING THEIR PRIVACY AND FREE SPEECH WHILE DENYING ME MINE!
ITS BULLSHIT PLAIN AND SIMPLE, PERPETRATED BY COWARDLY ASSHOLES!
NOTE: this is the uncensored version that couldn't be posted...
Thursday, January 26, 2012
Q&A
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=41783
5078. Question
by solonjoe3, 01/26/12 9:21 AM
In principle, what the difference between bribing Jimmy Dimora with sexual favors to get a job and bribing our current mayor with a promise to drop out of the race and hire the old mayor’s secretary?
[Joe's] Answer: Nothing. In both situations the public gets screwed.
5078.4. Answer
by SolonPol, 01/26/12 1:15 PM
Re: Question by solonjoe3, 01/26/12 1:15 PM
Brace yourself, you won't like it. But read it with an open mind, it is logical, just call me Spock. And if you still don't like my post, just remember that without my contrarian views to spark conversation, you guys would be just reading quotes of stupid comedy channel programs like South Park, just call me spice for the forum.
First, there's the evidence, Jimmy was on tape, lots of tape, Susan's situation is for the most part speculation, lots of it. And not "fair and balanced speculation" but whacko conspiracy theory speculation only found in Roswell, NM.
For Sally we have Joe's wild speculations and exaggeration, stretching what would never pass as "judicial evidence" to new wild fantasy. Bribery with something of little value (endorsement = 1/20 cent), then he switches the briber and bribee. Susan bribed Kevin for an endorsement? Why, when she supposedly had all her "dirty tricks", none of which compared to Bob's. And then saying that Susan got Patton to leave the race, oh please, it was the allure of the Mentor city manager job where no one knew Kevin's weaknesses. Next we'll hear that Susan talked Scott into running as Bob's spoiler, PULEASE!
But the real issue is of parity, Susan giving current employees "a chance" doesn't even come close to Jimmy's whores and payola for jobs. For Jimmy, we have all the sorid details on tape complete with F bombs and anatomical descriptions. For Susan all we have is a supposed conversation where Patton asks Susan to give his people a chance rather than the customary swinging of the ax the first day. Was this a bribe? Or even a favor? My candid council conversations of the time uncovered some councilman who would have OBJECTED to a mass house cleaning, who were concerned with the small changes she made early on.
So Patton may have ASKED Susan to CONSIDER giving some people a chance. And she did! But in the end, the IT Director, the Law Director, and the personal asst didn't pass muster and were replaced.
Was there a better way to handle this, would it have been cleaner to have a mass execution day one? Probably... But in the end, Susan is no Jimmy, just look at the pictures of the two of them, one is very very large.
5078. Question
by solonjoe3, 01/26/12 9:21 AM
In principle, what the difference between bribing Jimmy Dimora with sexual favors to get a job and bribing our current mayor with a promise to drop out of the race and hire the old mayor’s secretary?
[Joe's] Answer: Nothing. In both situations the public gets screwed.
5078.4. Answer
by SolonPol, 01/26/12 1:15 PM
Re: Question by solonjoe3, 01/26/12 1:15 PM
Brace yourself, you won't like it. But read it with an open mind, it is logical, just call me Spock. And if you still don't like my post, just remember that without my contrarian views to spark conversation, you guys would be just reading quotes of stupid comedy channel programs like South Park, just call me spice for the forum.
First, there's the evidence, Jimmy was on tape, lots of tape, Susan's situation is for the most part speculation, lots of it. And not "fair and balanced speculation" but whacko conspiracy theory speculation only found in Roswell, NM.
For Sally we have Joe's wild speculations and exaggeration, stretching what would never pass as "judicial evidence" to new wild fantasy. Bribery with something of little value (endorsement = 1/20 cent), then he switches the briber and bribee. Susan bribed Kevin for an endorsement? Why, when she supposedly had all her "dirty tricks", none of which compared to Bob's. And then saying that Susan got Patton to leave the race, oh please, it was the allure of the Mentor city manager job where no one knew Kevin's weaknesses. Next we'll hear that Susan talked Scott into running as Bob's spoiler, PULEASE!
But the real issue is of parity, Susan giving current employees "a chance" doesn't even come close to Jimmy's whores and payola for jobs. For Jimmy, we have all the sorid details on tape complete with F bombs and anatomical descriptions. For Susan all we have is a supposed conversation where Patton asks Susan to give his people a chance rather than the customary swinging of the ax the first day. Was this a bribe? Or even a favor? My candid council conversations of the time uncovered some councilman who would have OBJECTED to a mass house cleaning, who were concerned with the small changes she made early on.
So Patton may have ASKED Susan to CONSIDER giving some people a chance. And she did! But in the end, the IT Director, the Law Director, and the personal asst didn't pass muster and were replaced.
Was there a better way to handle this, would it have been cleaner to have a mass execution day one? Probably... But in the end, Susan is no Jimmy, just look at the pictures of the two of them, one is very very large.
Friday, January 6, 2012
My prediction
They'll be lots of saber rattling, canon ball shooting and genital measurements, but when its all said and done, there will be a settlement out of court, NO ONE wants a jury trial, not Susan, not Sally. The judge won't dismiss it based on the city's answer.
And Sally won't walk away empty handed and that means you and I will be paying ransom for a person who got pissed, went AWOL, blackmailed the city and tarnished our image. And to me, regardless of how the city handled things, I'm more pissed at the blackmailer.
If you or I pulled that shit, we'd be out in the cold, no one would be feathering our nests, I just want public employees to be treated the same as the private sector, and in the private sector NO ONE is guaranteed a job for life.
NOTE: Response posted here because Solon Forum flagged language even after "genital" and "pissed" were removed...
And Sally won't walk away empty handed and that means you and I will be paying ransom for a person who got pissed, went AWOL, blackmailed the city and tarnished our image. And to me, regardless of how the city handled things, I'm more pissed at the blackmailer.
If you or I pulled that shit, we'd be out in the cold, no one would be feathering our nests, I just want public employees to be treated the same as the private sector, and in the private sector NO ONE is guaranteed a job for life.
NOTE: Response posted here because Solon Forum flagged language even after "genital" and "pissed" were removed...
Wednesday, November 23, 2011
422 guard rails
FIRST DRAFT - will be updated...
Short answers in RED followed by in depth sequence of events...
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=40667
4962.1.2. Hey SolonPol, is this what happened?
by solonjoe3, 11/22/11 2:19 PM
Re: Reconsidering 422 guard rails by SolonPol, 11/22/11 2:19 PM
The city says to ODOT, “Hey buds, how about some guardrails.” (or did ODOT just do it on its own?)
ODOT to the City, “Sure, we can do that. Here are the plans.”
NOT SURE IF THEY OFFERED PLANS!
City to ODOT ”hey, those guard rails are kinda close to the road.”
NO, RESIDENTS NOTICED AND COMPLAINED FIRST.
ODOT “Yeah, too expensive to put further away from the road. ”
(Could the city have ponied up the extra cash to put it further away from the road? Was that an option?)
City “Ok”
Guardrails get put up.
Council “Hey, these new guard rails are too close. Let’s complain to ODOT”
ONLY AFTER RESIDENTS COMPLAINED AND IT WAS ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE SOLON TIMES.
Russo “Not so fast. I don’t want to make ‘em mad.”
Rest of council “Let’s talk about it at the next council mtg.”
REST OF SAFETY, JUST TO SOOTHE RUSSO'S RUFFLED FEATHERS.
Guy get killed. Guardrails may or may not be a contributing cause.
City pulls the item from agenda while it figure out what it wants to do.
THEY KNOW WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO, IT WAS DECIDED IN CAUCUS.
Is the above right? ODOT didn’t just put up the guardrails w/o consulting westbrooks et al, right? Or does ODOT just do things without asking?
NOT EXACTLY!
Cheers.
==================== And here's the answer ...
Not exactly!
The city, specifically I believe Shaw, has been asking for guardrails in the center to prevent cross over accidents for quite some time. They don't happen often, but of course they are serious when they do.
One time, ODOT said OK, we'll do them for free ........ and who knows how much anyone heard after that, knowing what a sucker politicians are for "free" stuff, after all that's how we got our "free" million dollar temp road. Hopefully no one notices that the city requested that...
The city did know in advance that ODOT was going to do them differently than requested, it was discussed at the Safety meeting. It's not clear whether ODOT just described the differences or whether they provided the city with plans. I'd guess that if the city asked for details or the plans that they'd probably get them.
Looking carefully at other rails, there are some that are close to the road. BUT, living in this city for some time and travelling that road I know I've seen lots of cars in the center snow drifts and it doesn't take a rocket scientist or a Harvard lawyer to wonder what fate those cars will have with guardrails, no matter how close they are to the road.
ODOT did say they couldn't put them in the center because there is drainage under the center. I'm not sure if they discussed the closeness or the reason in advance. At some point they started adding a foot of pavement and marking the posts. This is when any passing motorist knew they were going to be close.
At some point ODOT explained that they were not further from the road because the road side would need to be regraded and that would cost extra money.
While its "their road" and they don't have to get others input, I'd like to think that if Solon wanted to enhance the project at their own expense that they'd do it.
IT WAS NOT council who discovered the problem, it wasn't our crack road experts on the city payroll, IT WAS residents who wrote letters to council, just like BB Rd, just like Pepper Dr, just like the $2.3 M road rip off years ago.
One wonders if all these road problems are discovered by residents for free, well what are the experts supposed to be doing? Well I guess they do something beneficial but construction monitoring doesn't seem to be included.
So AFTER several letters, and AFTER the front page of the Solon Times, Toni wanted it added to the agenda. Russo said NO, he wanted it referred to Safety. After all he had dealt with the issue at the previous meeting, he asked his leading questions, he got his expert answers to trump the insignificant public, what more was needed?
So it WAS NOT put on the council agenda. At the end of Council, during the roundtable, Toni pulled a tactical move, she raised the issue, she made the motion, and it was immediately seconded (this doesn't happen accidentally, its almost always by advance collusion). There was some hesitation, she reminded the chair there was an active motion on the floor, Roberts Rules dictate a vote must be done. And it was, 6-0.
When Russo returned he was not to pleased about this slick maneuver and added the 422 rails to the Safety agenda. He was so anxious that he couldn't wait until the end of the meeting so he moved it up to the top of the Other Topics agenda.
Russo tried to override council, Bell let him huff and puff, then reminded him twice, it was at council, it was voted on, Russo lost.
Still he was not dissuaded and wrote a letter to the clerk making a "referral" which appeared on the agenda as a "reconsideration" (that is to repeal the letter).
ODOT has jurisdiction over 422, they can do what they want. But politics being politics and influence being a political commodity, there are always alternatives, there can always be deals made.
Unlike the popular BB Rd refrain, NO ONES HANDS ARE REALLY TIED!
Then there was a terrible accident, and these guard rails were involved. No one will ever know what would have happened for sure without them.
So in caucus, off camera, the agenda is discussed. Russo wanted no letter, council voted on the letter, no one wanted to have a discussion on camera. So a deal was made, let Westbrooks write a "professional and cooperative" letter, and the item will be removed from the agenda.
SO a letter will be written, and ODOT and the Gov will get it, file it, and likely take no action.
Its all in tactical moves, and the art of the deal...
Short answers in RED followed by in depth sequence of events...
http://www.cleveland.com/forums/solon/index.ssf?artid=40667
4962.1.2. Hey SolonPol, is this what happened?
by solonjoe3, 11/22/11 2:19 PM
Re: Reconsidering 422 guard rails by SolonPol, 11/22/11 2:19 PM
The city says to ODOT, “Hey buds, how about some guardrails.” (or did ODOT just do it on its own?)
ODOT to the City, “Sure, we can do that. Here are the plans.”
NOT SURE IF THEY OFFERED PLANS!
City to ODOT ”hey, those guard rails are kinda close to the road.”
NO, RESIDENTS NOTICED AND COMPLAINED FIRST.
ODOT “Yeah, too expensive to put further away from the road. ”
(Could the city have ponied up the extra cash to put it further away from the road? Was that an option?)
City “Ok”
Guardrails get put up.
Council “Hey, these new guard rails are too close. Let’s complain to ODOT”
ONLY AFTER RESIDENTS COMPLAINED AND IT WAS ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE SOLON TIMES.
Russo “Not so fast. I don’t want to make ‘em mad.”
Rest of council “Let’s talk about it at the next council mtg.”
REST OF SAFETY, JUST TO SOOTHE RUSSO'S RUFFLED FEATHERS.
Guy get killed. Guardrails may or may not be a contributing cause.
City pulls the item from agenda while it figure out what it wants to do.
THEY KNOW WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO, IT WAS DECIDED IN CAUCUS.
Is the above right? ODOT didn’t just put up the guardrails w/o consulting westbrooks et al, right? Or does ODOT just do things without asking?
NOT EXACTLY!
Cheers.
==================== And here's the answer ...
Not exactly!
The city, specifically I believe Shaw, has been asking for guardrails in the center to prevent cross over accidents for quite some time. They don't happen often, but of course they are serious when they do.
One time, ODOT said OK, we'll do them for free ........ and who knows how much anyone heard after that, knowing what a sucker politicians are for "free" stuff, after all that's how we got our "free" million dollar temp road. Hopefully no one notices that the city requested that...
The city did know in advance that ODOT was going to do them differently than requested, it was discussed at the Safety meeting. It's not clear whether ODOT just described the differences or whether they provided the city with plans. I'd guess that if the city asked for details or the plans that they'd probably get them.
Looking carefully at other rails, there are some that are close to the road. BUT, living in this city for some time and travelling that road I know I've seen lots of cars in the center snow drifts and it doesn't take a rocket scientist or a Harvard lawyer to wonder what fate those cars will have with guardrails, no matter how close they are to the road.
ODOT did say they couldn't put them in the center because there is drainage under the center. I'm not sure if they discussed the closeness or the reason in advance. At some point they started adding a foot of pavement and marking the posts. This is when any passing motorist knew they were going to be close.
At some point ODOT explained that they were not further from the road because the road side would need to be regraded and that would cost extra money.
While its "their road" and they don't have to get others input, I'd like to think that if Solon wanted to enhance the project at their own expense that they'd do it.
IT WAS NOT council who discovered the problem, it wasn't our crack road experts on the city payroll, IT WAS residents who wrote letters to council, just like BB Rd, just like Pepper Dr, just like the $2.3 M road rip off years ago.
One wonders if all these road problems are discovered by residents for free, well what are the experts supposed to be doing? Well I guess they do something beneficial but construction monitoring doesn't seem to be included.
So AFTER several letters, and AFTER the front page of the Solon Times, Toni wanted it added to the agenda. Russo said NO, he wanted it referred to Safety. After all he had dealt with the issue at the previous meeting, he asked his leading questions, he got his expert answers to trump the insignificant public, what more was needed?
So it WAS NOT put on the council agenda. At the end of Council, during the roundtable, Toni pulled a tactical move, she raised the issue, she made the motion, and it was immediately seconded (this doesn't happen accidentally, its almost always by advance collusion). There was some hesitation, she reminded the chair there was an active motion on the floor, Roberts Rules dictate a vote must be done. And it was, 6-0.
When Russo returned he was not to pleased about this slick maneuver and added the 422 rails to the Safety agenda. He was so anxious that he couldn't wait until the end of the meeting so he moved it up to the top of the Other Topics agenda.
Russo tried to override council, Bell let him huff and puff, then reminded him twice, it was at council, it was voted on, Russo lost.
Still he was not dissuaded and wrote a letter to the clerk making a "referral" which appeared on the agenda as a "reconsideration" (that is to repeal the letter).
ODOT has jurisdiction over 422, they can do what they want. But politics being politics and influence being a political commodity, there are always alternatives, there can always be deals made.
Unlike the popular BB Rd refrain, NO ONES HANDS ARE REALLY TIED!
Then there was a terrible accident, and these guard rails were involved. No one will ever know what would have happened for sure without them.
So in caucus, off camera, the agenda is discussed. Russo wanted no letter, council voted on the letter, no one wanted to have a discussion on camera. So a deal was made, let Westbrooks write a "professional and cooperative" letter, and the item will be removed from the agenda.
SO a letter will be written, and ODOT and the Gov will get it, file it, and likely take no action.
Its all in tactical moves, and the art of the deal...
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